Ladakh Flash Point

@twineedle

Something pushed China into acting decisively in Feb 2020 with PLA settling up to LAC. I speculate this was a combination of India's growing nationalism and anti-Chinese interests in the region re CPEC Kashmir etc and China's desire to militarily express concern for India's building. To move back willingly they must get something in return and that something is India agreeing to stay behind finger 3. In return China will agree with the buffer. One doesn't throw away such an upper hand for free unless you think the CCP is that charitable.

Whatever disengagement conditions were given, they would be in China's favour in some way. India agreeing to stop patrolling up to finger 8 and staying behind finger 3 is apparently at least good enough for China to pull the PLA back from occupying those forward positions. This hints at the status building up before the clash. Which is China wanting India to stop patrols and building up.

BTW what some Indians are suggesting as India's win is thoroughly embarrassing. Look status quo was both sides patrolling their claims with other side expressing disagreement with banners but no more. There was no real buffer zone of no presence allowed in the past.

Then PLA occupied a stretch that takes up 80% of India's claims and right up to the LAC which China has wanted to set up as the border since 70 years ago. China claims finger 3 so as to make the 1959 deal more palatable when the real intention is to settle for border at finger 4. Coincidentally (not) also where LAC agreement sits more or less and where PLA occupied up to.

This can be interpreted as China moving one step forwards to India's loss. India tried desperately to reverse this PLA move with multiple strategies.

Now China agrees to stepping back with the condition that India does not patrol their claims any more and remain only behind finger 3 to which India has obviously agreed.

If we want to give a win to one side, China's one step forward one step back while proving IA ineffective in doing anything about it, then establishing the 1992 agreement which is basically China's wish from the beginning, would be China's win. I mean if one really wants to reward wins to a side which seems to be Jai Hind fan favourite activity.

No China did not lose fingers 3 to 8 because they always wanted to settle this with a line down the middle. India is the one claiming fingers 3 to 8. China just agreed to pull back the troops there in return for India agreeing to this. This means nothing to China. The land means nothing to either side but the relationship between the two mean a hell of a lot more.

If we're talking about wins and losses, China's focus could also be shifting to its real loss, that is Taiwan. That is a truly sensitive and important matter and stretch of "disputed" (lol) land, and to end the civil war. If India is going to behave and stay behind finger 3, China is happy to observe a buffer.

If China took one step forward and then one step back only during that time, prove that India is helpless against the PPC while also using that one step forward to negotiate for the final settlement of this dispute more along the lines of 1959 China offer than India's "I want everything up to finger 8". Then it is abundantly clear this isn't even a neutral chain of events that netted no gain or loss. There was clear gain and loss between China's step forward and step back. The step back was at the expense of getting India to agree to their own LAC 1992 deal.

siegecrossbow said:

Stay on topic please. Last warning.

Click to expand...

Thank you! Man that was tiring.

At the press conference release of the Chinese MOD where the martyrs were honored, Indian journalists primarily asked two types of questions:

1) Are you concealing casualties?
2) Why are you releasing this info now?

siegecrossbow said:

At the press conference release of the Chinese MOD where the martyrs were honored, Indian journalists primarily asked two types of questions:

1) Are you concealing casualties?
2) Why are you releasing this info now?

Click to expand...

Replies should have been.

1. No. Go ask your government and military to confirm officially if this isn't the truth.

2. To avoid running around like a headless chicken sort of like the state India was in and to avoid Jai Hind asses from burning. Not that Jai Hinds would have even believed those numbers and just resort to making up their own to feel better.

ougoah said:

Replies should have been.

1. No. Go ask your government and military to confirm officially if this isn't the truth.

2. To avoid running around like a headless chicken sort of like the state India was in and to avoid Jai Hind asses from burning. Not that Jai Hinds would have even believed those numbers and just resort to making up their own to feel better.

Click to expand...

It shows where their priorities lie and exactly what is wrong with their mentality. Compare Indian reports of the incident with that of the official Chinese one: the Indian one comes off as bad Rambo fan fiction. One of our Sikh soldiers hurled 15 PLA soldiers over the cliff to avenge his beloved Colonel Babu. Killing, killing, killing, killing... For people who actually suck at killing, they sure obsess over it.

The Chinese report, in contrast, focuses on SAVING and DEFENDING fellow PLA soldiers. Is there death and gore in the report? Yes, but that isn't the focus. The focus is on soldiers shielding each other's bodies from sticks and stones. The focus is on soldier who perished in the icy Galwan River pushing his comrade to safety. The focus is on soldier who broke out of the ambush, but rushed back in an effort to save his friends. The focus is on a Commander who tried to tear off his bandaging so that he could rejoin the fray despite being incapacitated by a fractured skull.

That, more than anything else, demonstrates the maturity level of the two nations. The gulf between China and India is not technological or monetary -- those could be acquired or built up over time. The gulf is in the mentality.

ougoah said:

Replies should have been.

1. No. Go ask your government and military to confirm officially if this isn't the truth.

2. To avoid running around like a headless chicken sort of like the state India was in and to avoid Jai Hind asses from burning. Not that Jai Hinds would have even believed those numbers and just resort to making up their own to feel better.

Click to expand...

More like:
2. What are you going to do now that we already signed a disengagement agreement? Retaliate for revenge and even the numbers? Too late!

Bhakts have to cope now.

siegecrossbow said:

It shows where their priorities lie and exactly what is wrong with their mentality. Compare Indian reports of the incident with that of the official Chinese one: the Indian one comes off as bad Rambo fan fiction. One of our Sikh soldiers hurled 15 PLA soldiers over the cliff to avenge his beloved Colonel Babu. Killing, killing, killing, killing... For people who actually suck at killing, they sure obsess over it.

The Chinese report, in contrast, focuses on SAVING and DEFENDING fellow PLA soldiers. Is there death and gore in the report? Yes, but that isn't the focus. The focus is on soldiers shielding each other's bodies from sticks and stones. The focus is on soldier who perished in the icy Galwan River pushing his comrade to safety. The focus is on soldier who broke out of the ambush, but rushed back in an effort to save his friends. The focus is on a Commander who tried to tear off his bandaging so that he could rejoin the fray despite being incapacitated by a fractured skull.

That, more than anything else, demonstrates the maturity level of the two nations. The gulf between China and India is not technological or monetary -- those could be acquired or built up over time. The gulf is in the mentality.

Click to expand...

Nicely said.

This classic deluded “winner” Indian mentality is clearly demonstrated by our dear friend longmarch in this very thread. How ironic that he himself was so obsessed about the Chinese mentality, by describing it as “weak” and “loser” constantly.

Even if he isn’t Indian, he has won the honorary Indian citizenship, as he has acquired their classic mentality.

TheFoozyOne said:

Nicely said.

This classic deluded “winner” Indian mentality is clearly demonstrated by our dear friend longmarch in this very thread. How ironic that he himself was so obsessed about the Chinese mentality, by describing it as “weak” and “loser” constantly.

Even if he isn’t Indian, he has won the honorary Indian citizenship, as he has acquired their classic mentality.

Click to expand...

Well this is super-loo-pooper 2020 after all.

It's all about owning white slaves and bobs and vagene because mighty bihar supermen were able to throw a dozen PLA off cliffs all by himself. But with all that mightiness somehow still managed to lose over 20 men and have over 40 captured and tied up like dogs.

There is no delusion that matches Jai Hind delusion. They are backwards which explains a lot of this but the number of these morons that persist with Jai Hind narratives and belief structures is worrying. At least no good can come from a culture/civilisation that produces such braindead people. They bury their own futures in their present denial of ground realities. Sort of like the mantra "well 50% of NASA are Indians (so untrue btw) so we guuuuuuuud."