Ladakh Flash Point

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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Ok so you admit that there is no actual way to prove where Indian troops patrol. Some government sources say up to finger 4, others say up to finger 8. I have posted an interview with an army officer who served on Pangong Tso who said Indian troops never patrolled past four, which apparently isn't good enough for you. So the only thing we know for sure is that early last year China physically occupied that area for the first time since 1962, triggering teh standoff. The disengagement deal restored status quo ante as it was before 2020. That is the only thing we know for fact(though I believe Colonel Dinny is far more reputable than any unnamed "Government source"

Yes except that disengagement deal did not restore status quo to conditions just before 2020.

Disengagement has placed IA behind finger 3 with no more patrolling beyond finger 3. This was not the case prior to standoff.

In effect this disengagement agreement is similar to LAC 1992/93 except hopefully observed rather than ignored. If it is observed, then it would mean the end of India's claims up to finger 8. It would also mean creating a buffer out of the entire stretch which was not the case in the past and essentially 1992/93 agreement.

Part of the Indian leadership and opposition are lamenting the fact that this basically means giving up on India's claim unless India changes the situation in future.
 

TheFoozyOne

New Member
Registered Member
Your government officials have been celebrating the killing of babies all over the world, and you want me to give you citation.

No even a single country follow your crap policy. It's crime again humanity.
Please cite your sources that Chinese officials are celebrating it “all over the world”, otherwise it’s an empty claim. Not unusual from an honorary Indian with a big mouth, but I guess I was wrong to expect more from you.

Plenty of countries have abortions too, are you an US evangelical honorary Indian now? “Killing babies” is the classic argument that republicans in the US use to go against abortions.
 

longmarch

Junior Member
Registered Member
All your garbage advice for a country that is not even yours is not just pathetic; it's pathological. You wouldn't obsess over others if your life was worth your effort.
That's exactly the mindset I'm talking about. And The only thing you can do is to resort to personal attack.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
All of those viral videos occured around the foxhole point of finger 4. That is because finger 4 has only one opening for tropps to pass through, which is easily blocked from either side. And I believe Col. Dinny does have far more authority on this issue than most Indians, since he actually served on Pangong Tso and knows how Indian troops operate. The fact is China was forced to retreat beyond finger 8 and dismantle infrastructure, which it had built with the clear purpose of forcibly annexing it, so China disengaging and respecting Indian claim lines is clearly what India wanted. The fact is the current situation at Pangong Tso, Galwan, and Hot Springs is exactly how the status quo was prior to Feb of 2020, and there is satellite imagery to prove that. No amount of ranting can change that.
What an Indian fantasy! You used all the buzzwords, "respect" and "forced" to sound like India could actually do a thing against China. Gotta invent a little dignity for yourself, eh? The real world with failed ambushes, shot down jets, accidental self-kills is just a little to much for an Indian to get on with...
It is impossible to capture territory and retreat at teh same time, and satellite images have shown that PLA has retreated 60 km at Pangong and 1 km from pp14, meaning China was forced to recognize Indian claims. Meanwhile, India has a camp less than half a km from pp14 and still conducts patrolling ops there, and even completed the bridge near the mouth. BTW, according to the new 1959 claim line, the LAC is at the Galwan mouty, NOT the bend/pp14. So according to Chinese claims, it is India that captured Chinese territory, not vice versa. Than again, some members here actually think destroying everything you built and retreating 60 km counts as a victory.
Yeah, it's impossible to capture territory and retreat at the same time at the same location, which is why China first captured territory, then gave a part of it back to you for your disengagement so China can move on to more important stuff. If you break it again, you will lose territory and soldiers again.
If you want a serious answer, I think China agreed because it saw that India was continuing to build infrastructure in disputed territory, and it refused to accept China's new 1959 line, and instead continued to enforce the 1992 agreement. As a result, China failed to secure the additional territory it had aimed to capture. in addition, China probably did not expect India to successfully sustain winter deployment along the LAC, without suffering a single casualty due to weather. India also gained a strategic advantage over some Chinese positions by occupying Rechin la and Rezang la. If you are willing to speculate, perhaps Biden showed he would'nt be significantly softer on China on Trump, so considering the above, China thought that it should give up on Ladakh and focus on the US.

That is what I think, based on the available evidence.
"Enforce" with no force again LOL. You know that China can steamroll you if it wanted, right? America wouldn't even help you in that case. "Think" and "evidence" are not things that Indians are familiar with, hence the creation of this mutation of reality. In the real world, India started trouble, was beaten back, the US didn't help like it should, and China let India off the hook on the condition that it simmer down and let China take care of adult business with the US. Don't flatter yourself that you are bigger than this.
India's opposition is "lamenting" because they want to make the government look bad. Simple as that. And the 1992 agreement literally has everything to do with this standoff, since without that, there wouldn't even be a LAC. China clearly decided to throw out that agreement after article 370 abrogation, and attempted to forcefully occupy fingers 4-8 changing the status quo. That is the root of this standoff. And Rajnath Singh specifically said that India claims up to finger 8, and those claims will be enforced by the buffer zone. If India gave up on those claims, it would have simply allowed China to keep its new bases, jetties, etc. between 4-8. By your logic, did China also give up its claim to finger 3 by agreeing to the buffer zone?
Make the Indian government look bad??? Are you kidding? One has to do something for that? Your own capital is engulfed in farmer riots, COVID, and a plunging economy. The military blunders against China and Pakistan are minor in comparison. Using them to make the Indian government look bad is like throwing Jolly Ranchers at a 5'3" 400 pound woman to make her look fat.
Wow the mental gymnastics some members are showing is incredible. China literally withdraws to behind finger 8 and restores status quo ante, and some are saying that China didn't withdraw at all. If the disengagement deal means india gives up its claims to finger 8, that also means China gives up its claims to finger 3. India literally acheived its strategic goal while China retreated 60 km, and people here are trying to deny that. Well denial can;t change facts on the ground.
The biggest mental gymnastics seen here was "You shot down our jet and captured our pilot? That's a disposable tin can!" China withdrew after it gave you a lesson in beating and you understood that you can achieve nothing against China. Then it let you go cus you're a minnow and we're here for the shark. And now you're going around telling everyone you're such a tough fish you broke China's fishing rod LOLOL
You can cry, but you can't change the ground reality.
How are those camps you built between fingers 4-8? Meanwhile Indian troops are where they have always been.
Wherever you are, China allowed you to be there, and can disallow you if your behavior is bad again. Indians always mistake mercy for weakness, or rather, purposefully fool themselves to cling on to a nonexistent dignity.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Wow the mental gymnastics some members are showing is incredible. China literally withdraws to behind finger 8 and restores status quo ante, and some are saying that China didn't withdraw at all. If the disengagement deal means india gives up its claims to finger 8, that also means China gives up its claims to finger 3. India literally acheived its strategic goal while China retreated 60 km, and people here are trying to deny that. Well denial can;t change facts on the ground.

This is less accurate and I'll explain.
India lost claims up to finger 8 correct? So how is this achieving a strategic goal? At best neither achieved anything with the only difference from past being this new buffer is supposedly enforced.

China took over and left willingly. China's strategic goal since the 1950s was to prevent India from taking up to finger 8. Now they've prevented India from taking a step east of finger 3. That's a greater strategic achievement if anything. Leaving finger 3 to 8 as buffer is fine enough for China's POV because India's claims of finger 8 are over now. It's really that simple. Having the buffer is preferable to India constantly claiming and intruding up to finger 8. Even if it means no PLA presence to finger 4 but so what to them? It's not India that managed to either take finger 3 to 8. India couldn't even remove PLA from settling up to finger 4.

India wanting everything up to finger 8 is the original issue. China wants LAC established around finger 4.

Now with the establishment of buffer in finger 3 to 8, this original issue of India's claims have evaporated but exist as a formality. China wanting LAC deal at finger 4 with buffer is basically what has been delivered now. The buffer established here leans far more with China's favour simply because at least China is fine with a buffer. I don't know how serious India's attitude to its claim truly is but no presence of military is better for China than Indian army leaning up against China and patrolling into what they claim - now buffer.

I would imagine India doesn't care much more for this stretch than China really does either. Both claims are done out of posturing to ensure greater bargaining room. Truth is netiher side were there or lived there but a buffer from China's POV means no more of whatever IA did to provoke PLA into settling. It was PLA who settled fingers 4 to 8 not IA. This fact is pretty important both for estimating the conditions of disengagement and for putting into context why this confrontation happened.
 
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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Your government officials have been celebrating the killing of babies all over the world, and you want me to give you citation.
Yeah, you make a claim, you provide the evidence. It's kinda simple like that. Otherwise anyone can make shit up.
No even a single country follow your crap policy.
What policy is that? Don't know what you're talking about? No evidence again? Your medication coverage is the crap policy if it's leaving you in this condition.
It's crime again humanity.
Your made up bull-crap is a crime against the forum.
That's exactly the mindset I'm talking about. And The only thing you can do is to resort to personal attack.
I have refuted every one of your points, and only responded in kind because you are the person who made personal attacks and used explicative words here first. My responses to you are on a point-to-point format refuting everything you said and the only thing you can scrape together is "there was a personal attack there somewhere." You thought you were the toughest guy here cus you call other people dumb-asses and you can drop F-bombs, eh? Now you're all, "You resorted to a personal attack." LOLOL
 
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quantumlight

Junior Member
Registered Member
That's exactly the mindset I'm talking about. And The only thing you can do is to resort to personal attack.
You keep bashing our editor Hu, at least the guy is advocating China stockpile more nuclear weapons quickly. Thats true hard power deterrence, not your propaganda soft power make friends deterrence bs

Here is what you own editor has to say about all of this... Modi screwed up bad, sorry but not sorry bollywood!!!!!

 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Mods, can we make faking your national identity here a bannable offence? It’s one thing to not wish to disclose, but to actively lie about where you are from is not a sign that said member has anything worthwhile to contribute here and are more likely to be interested in false flag trolling and flame baiting.
 

quantumlight

Junior Member
Registered Member
Mods, can we make faking your national identity here a bannable offence? It’s one thing to not wish to disclose, but to actively lie about where you are from is not a sign that said member has anything worthwhile to contribute here and are more likely to be interested in false flag trolling and flame baiting.
Facebook does ID verification request all the time, perhaps since he has given reasonable cause for a verification, his account can be disabled until he sends photocopy of his passport ... holding passport up to his face
 
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