Ladakh Flash Point

The western media picked up the news Here is the map of the conflict This border incident is unfortunate and left over from british colonization and aggression India need to sober up and restraining from provoking China.
You cannot declare McMahon line as a border unless China agree to it. An arbitrary line drawn by the british is not a border unless it is sanction by China.
China is more than generous returning South Tibet (Arunachal pradesh) back to India when she can kept it as 62 war booty.

India Says Three Soldiers Died in Clash With Chinese Troops
Sudhi Ranjan Sen
June 16, 2020, 4:46 AM CDT
Excerpt

India Says Three Soldiers Died in Clash With Chinese Troops
(Bloomberg) -- India says at least three of its soldiers have died in a “violent” clash with Chinese troops at a section along their unmarked border high in the Himalayas, in the first fatalities resulting from skirmishes in the region in four decades.
There were “casualties on both sides,” Indian army spokesman Col. Aman Anand said in New Delhi Tuesday, adding that officials were meeting to defuse the situation. The dead on the Indian side include an officer and two soldiers, Anand said, adding that no firing took place during the encounter. He gave no other details.
Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said Tuesday he didn’t have information on the violent face-off that led to the killing of the three Indian soldiers. But he said two Indian soldiers had illegally crossed into Chinese territory twice on June 15 in a “serious violation” of the consensus reached earlier between the two countries.
“They provoked and attacked the Chinese side, leading to a severe physical brawl. China has lodged protests and representations to the Indian side,” Zhao said. “China demands the Indian side restrict front line soldiers and avoid unilateral moves that will complicate the border situation.”

Stunning photo from pangong tso

The video purportedly showing a Chinese patrol intercepted and beaten up by Indian troops is particularly illuminating. The still shot capture (Image 1) allows us to geolocate the incident (Image 2). This is almost 2 kilometres inside Indian territory (as the crow flies), as measured from the LAC close (0.62 kilometres) to the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) camp at the base of finger 4 (Image 3).
Image 1 from video of alleged scuffle | Images 2 and 3 via Google | Abhijit Iyer-Mitra
The overall location of the incident and the Indian camp with respect to the LAC and the fingers can be seen in Image 4.

"Another 34 Indian soldiers missing, source tells The Telegraph, after clashes with batons as China claims its troops acted in self-defence "

Petrolicious88 said:

it’s pretty obvious India provoked this latest fist fight. They want the conflict to drag on, and feel emboldened to because they likely have covert foreign support.
But India must realize that it’s being used as a pawn once again by foreign powers.

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Not believable. At a time when coronavirus has increased in my country India we don't have time for this kind of confrontation with a bigger military power.

I doubt that either side "provoked" this incident. This is just what happens when you have opposing grunts in close proximity.

It makes no sense for either side to provoke the other. China already has what it wants, and India can only lose more.

It's an unfortunate incident, but there's no reason to read too much into it. Jingoism won't help. Just move on with the 'talks.'

ashdoc said:

Not believable. At a time when coronavirus has increased in my country India we don't have time for this kind of confrontation with a bigger military power.

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It’s pretty believable. Withdraw process was already negotiated. Then this happened. Either soldiers on both sides are undisciplined, or somebody intentionally sabotaged the peace process by starting a fight.

Petrolicious88 said:

It’s pretty believable. Withdraw process was already negotiated. Then this happened. Either soldiers on both sides are undisciplined, or somebody intentionally sabotaged the peace process by starting a fight.

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China has the bigger incentive for that . It's military is more powerful and at the moment it is in mood of defiance because of being blamed for being origin of coronavirus. Also the motive could be to intimidate India into not coming too close to America and to not improve infrastructure near LAC .

duskseeker said:

Yep just when I thought Eurasia was going to be a thing this happens.

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Technically, Eurasianism isn't a viable thing for either of these nations. Especially, not for China. SCO is a different story, however.

ougoah said:

China will be continuing to feed the west their much desired ammunition for building the narrative that China is always forever the instigator as opposed to simply defending their claims and sometimes responding to violence with a similar lethality. This doesn't protect PLA troops or help build its case or develop its claim. What's so hard to get.

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Regardless of the actual development of the incident, the western media will always pick the largest so-called democracy, India over China, despite all the economical ties beg to differ. So, it's not really big of a deal what does some German or French decision-maker think about Ladakh incident. They can hardly make proper decisions about close-proximity regions such as Libya and fail more often every passing day, who cares what do they think about some god forgotten mountain border, as long as they cannot affect the situation in any way.

I think there can't be a worser time to deal with a conflict such as this for India.
•The Quad is in no shape to respond a call. Thus, limited political support with little or no actual supporting measures.
•The Quad isolated India and put distance with Moscow.
•Indian domestic arms industry is nowhere near to sustain a conflict on its own and lack indigenous and innovative solutions. Thus, limited to no deterrence in peace time.
•The west is in no shape of offering political solutions, especially now that there is a financial crisis on the horizon.

The best course of action is detente to weather the incoming storm.

@siegecrossbow @Deino @ougoah look like around 20 soldiers are dead on our side. Chinese did fired bullets.There are more than 100 injured. some sources saying that 45 Indian troops were also captured and 25 of them have been released so far. any source from a Chinese side ? Look like an ambush to me.

berserk said:

you should go watch pogo channel. This is a matter between two big powers. You need not to concern yourself with such complex issue.

That map is accurate. It was under Peshwa rule at its zenith. Maratha confederacy came much later.
after Maratha captured Delhi...all mughal rulers were just puppet of Marathas until 1803 when British took over Delhi.

Mughal rule over india lasted for no more thsn 150 year's by that logic.

Wrong Mauryan empire was much bigger and your love for him is given little islamist.

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I think it is useful to remind everyone that a set, clearly demarcated border is an European invention. Historically boundaries between nations/empires in Asia wax and wanes with their respective influence in border regions as time goes, and are generally not a concrete feature as we modern people conceptualise today.

Those few maps posted previously should be understood in this light - i.e. the border areas merely areas of influence at a specific time frame. The fact that many areas follow the modern border demarcation raises the question of how authentic they really are.

A good read into this issue would be the first chapter of "India's China war" by Maxwell - however I understand that this book is banned in India. It also goes to illustrate how applying the European concept of boundaries in Asia (and especially so in Africa) has created alot of problems which still persist to this day.

mahakala said:

I think it is useful to remind everyone that a set, clearly demarcated border is an European invention. Historically boundaries between nations/empires in Asia wax and wanes with their respective influence in border regions as time goes, and are generally not a concrete feature as we modern people conceptualise today.

Those few maps posted previously should be understood in this light - i.e. the border areas merely areas of influence at a specific time frame. The fact that many areas follow the modern border demarcation raises the question of how authentic they really are.

A good read into this issue would be the first chapter of "India's China war" by Maxwell - however I understand that this book is banned in India. It also goes to illustrate how applying the European concept of boundaries in Asia (and especially so in Africa) has created alot of problems which still persist to this day.

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No the book is not banned in India. I have read it .