Ladakh Flash Point

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Mohsin77

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Just as it is a mistake to underestimate your opponent, it can be just as dangerous to overestimate them.

India has zero plans to ‘free’ Tibet, never mind all the other nonsense fantasising they are doing with maps.

Over-estimating is one thing, but we should understand their mindset because that is critical to predicting their moves. The revocation of article 370 was a direct result of this fantasizing. Remember that both the Chinese and Pakistani leadership was surprised by this move. When you're surprised by a move your opponent makes, that means you failed to understand your opponent.

The cause of this failure was a lack of understanding in how deeply rooted the BJP is in the RSS's ideology. All this fantasizing comes from the RSS, which is the support base of the BJP, which has filled India's military, bureaucracy and media with sycophants. I earlier listed the political reasons for India joining the US-led Quad. But as I mentioned, there are complex historical reasons for this Quad alignment as well. Well, here's a quick summary of this very convoluted dimension:

The RSS/BJP believes that in order to secure its Greater India/'Akhand Bharat' fantasy, it will need the US on its side. This isn't just because the US is an opponent of China, but because in the RSS's ideology, the United States is a fellow 'aryan' nation. Yes, this is the same 'aryan race' idea which Hitler used. This 'aryan' concept probably originated in Europe with the British, who literally invented modern racism and then spread it all over the world via their global empire. The RSS later adopted this racist ideology as an insecure response to India's historical domination by the Muslims, allying with the Islamic Civ's nemesis, the West, which itself invented the 'indo-aryan' concept to justify its own 'Caucasian' superiority...

You can see how crazy this all gets and right quick. But there are multiple leaders in the US/EU/India whose support base (not all, but a significant chunk) believes in these ideas. Here's one source, but you can find many others:
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p.s. The RSS's fantasy maps can range from this:

कैसा होता अगर अखंड भारत आज भी होता ? Akhand Bharat ...


To this:

Akhand bharat or 'undivided India as... | India map, India facts ...


To sometimes this (lolz):

Akhand Bharat (@AkhandBharat2_0) | Twitter
 
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Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
Sending reinforcements will not help tip the balance, not even all of the indian army on the border would help, not even taking into account the massive tech gap, theyre too far behind on communication and logistics. If india goes to war, it will be humiliated like iraq in the gulf war.

In terms of air supremacy india already lost, neither is the indian army very good at guerilla tactics. Indian reliance on imported arms, even more severe than Saddam's reliance, will be a massive liability since all China needs to do is to strike arms depots filled with irreplaceble ammo that india itself cannot replenish. China can airlift it's armor and mechanized units to Pakistan, whose border with India is perfect flatland. Northern India would be indefensible.

It is a monumentally bad idea for india to go to war. India's top leadership likely understands this, but lower rank military leaders might not. They're drunk on bollywood propaganda where 1 indian soldier can bare handed rip apart a dozen PLA.

The more indian reinforcements on the border, the bigger the chance of one of the commanders being delusional and starting a war. Sending those tanks to the border was a mistake for the indian regime, because if they cannot guarantee those tank commanders will listen to orders, it will lead to very big problems for india.
 

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
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Every Indian nationalist is talking about boycotting Chinese products. They're letting emotions take over the logic. Never make decisions emotionally when it comes to national interests.

China is one of the biggest investors into India economy. It's helping the Indian economy in the same way that foreign investors helped China. It is investing massively into the local Indian economy, so eventually they can become stronger. India wants to boycott all that investment lol...and shoot itself in the foot. How dumb can the Indian govt be?!
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Every Indian nationalist is talking about boycotting Chinese products. They're letting emotions take over the logic. Never make decisions emotionally when it comes to national interests.

China is one of the biggest investors into India economy. It's helping the Indian economy in the same way that foreign investors helped China. It is investing massively into the local Indian economy, so eventually they can become stronger. India wants to boycott all that investment lol...and shoot itself in the foot. How dumb can the Indian govt be?!

Especially when the Indian economy is suffering due to the Covid out break. Any boycott measures will likely backfire.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Every Indian nationalist is talking about boycotting Chinese products. They're letting emotions take over the logic. Never make decisions emotionally when it comes to national interests.

China is one of the biggest investors into India economy. It's helping the Indian economy in the same way that foreign investors helped China. It is investing massively into the local Indian economy, so eventually they can become stronger. India wants to boycott all that investment lol...and shoot itself in the foot. How dumb can the Indian govt be?!

Every silver lining has a cloud too. People are failing to realise what these opportunities truly represent. China is holding literally every initiative and can be flexible in its approach to the developing "problem" while the choices offered to India are truly rigid. For instance take this boycott which is starting to trend. Where is it coming from? Are you certain it is the events of June? I would suggest boycott China movement has been a long time brewing. I don't want to get into the whys because it's going to be offensive to the Indians.

India's boycott China movement should actually be met with encouragement from the Chinese and anyone who wishes to hinder India. China's exports to India are usually around the 3% of annual Chinese GDP mark which as a nominal value far exceeds India's exports to China. However, the latter accounts for just over 5% of India's annual GPD, all according to more recent years. More importantly, what are these exports comprised of? Well for China to India it is consumer goods of all sorts, something that allows the Indians to go just beyond clothing and feeding themselves. You know, the day to day important stuff that allows people to continue their lives and their businesses.

What does India sell to China? Cotton mostly. Replaceable chemicals and some other minerals which China can more than happily supply for itself if not source for cheap elsewhere. Where can Indians buy that thermometer, kettle, calculator, hairdryer, alarm clock, air filter? They need to stock up a lot on that last one. What about Indian businesses which rely on Chinese equipment and components? They don't have their own that meet standards otherwise they'd be using them. Do they want to increase their expenses many fold? Can they afford to? We're not talking about everything shifting a few percentage points or fractions of percentage points which have killed economies in the past. We're talking a scale that is simply, absolutely, insanely, impossible. As far as I can tell, the majority of day to day items in the western world are STILL made in China or by Chinese factories relocated to South East Asia. How long has Trump's trade war been waging? And this is an economic superpower many times larger than India with far higher abilities for manufacturing and for purchasing expensive alternatives. And yet even there it hasn't really happened on any significant scale. Denying objective reality seems to be a preferred pastime for China haters. I sense a pattern.

Everything India sells to China, China can very easily replace and what better time to do exactly this! A lot of things China sells to India are not really easily replaceable without incurring devastating costs to their economy. If they're not aware of this, we should not be denying the enemy his chance to blunder. Not only has this tit for tat got the potential to rob India of 5% of their annual income, traded for China's 3%, it will also slow them down a lot by taking away necessary tools for economic activity and general progress. Does anyone really think all the Indians who will smash their Chinese computers and smartphones are lining up to replace them with Apple products at five to ten times the cost? Can you, in lavish and wealthy west, afford to smash your daily driver and buy a brand new Lamborghini at ten times the price?

Again, their boycott China movement is something to be encouraged. Meanwhile responses must be made and further crippling of India must be planned and executed. Modi has just given China tacit encouragement to take and settle all claims and disputes once and for all. They will simply say this is not Indian land. If they have demonstrated unwillingness to fight for one part, they will not fight for any. If they do, it's an opportunity for China yet again and certainly a more exciting one and the consequences even more dire for India once it loses its entire armed forces or surrenders after a shooting war. Modi giving up both Ladakh sites indicates India's top brass know that fighting gives them their worst outcome and humiliation. Of course no matter what happens, Indians will use their media to lie until they convinced every loyal Bhakt that pigs do fly... just like how boycotting China is a good idea. The poor sods.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Can anyone verify if this video is related to the recent Galwan valley incident?


No idea about whether the footage is PLA soldier's ashes from Galwan or any other incident. It could be. But the poster's material has since its account's creation in late 2019, been all anti-government and anti-Chinese views. There are a lot of anti-CCP Chinese and there are HK and Taiwanese who are like that too. Not to mention the whole diaspora of Fa Lun Gong and Shenyun cults. Not unlike these people to take out of context clips and attribute it to something for manipulation. Done before in the past and even the Indians came out with a certain list of general names (pun intended) now proven to be fake.

I recall the J-15 pilot killed in the accident with similar ceremony. There have been lots of these from accidents and no one in the crowd is wearing a facemask. While most people in China are still wearing facemasks now even in cities unaffected. Who knows though. Could be a soldier killed in Galwan and it doesn't look like the government has kept it a secret does it? Which makes me question this. So many cameras and such a public showing. But it's still possible China's side suffered fatalities as well since the government has not said anything about fatalities on either side! If the CCP hasn't made any announcements about Indian damages including fatalities, it's going to continue to refrain from talking about damages. The CCP's official narrative is both sides have casualties, whatever those details are. So perhaps keeping PLA fatalities secret isn't part of the game at all. The CCP may have no desire to keep any supposed PLA fatality under wraps. This being an example, if it is even due to the June event. People (Indians) prefer concluding that keeping silent means hiding massive losses. It could be hiding nothing, it could be hiding small losses, and it could be not about hiding! Perhaps keeping silent on damages on both sides is intended for other reasons... such as avoiding boasting which the Indians seem to be doing en masse despite things on the ground not looking good for their position.
 
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