Ladakh Flash Point

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Sardaukar20

Captain
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A bit of Indian and Russian logic - USAF will buy F-15EX therefore F-22s and F-35s are worse than the F-15EX just like PLAAF buying the Su-35 and still building J-10 and J-16 definitely means the J-20 is less capable. This is why India has superior intelligence and superpower status.

On a serious note though I really doubt the J-11D will include any radical changes to the airframe. The RCS problem is an airframe one and the J-16 has already made as much effort as economically viable on reducing RCS. You just can't hide the weapons or the engines with this design. I don't see how the J-11D can be much better than what the J-11BG and J-16 are already unless they include integrated TVC or intending to integrate WS-15 engines. The idea of the J-11D is increasingly pointless now when the focus should be forward. Flankers will continue to be "upgraded" and built in dianzhi versions of J-15 and J-16 along with more J-15 (newer blocks) and J-16s.

The only worthwhile idea is to pursue some equivalent missile truck idea similar in concept to the F-15EX. However it will demand much better engines so unless the flanker frame can eventually use WS-15s and have the internal fuel capacity to make the whole program worthwhile, the missile truck role may be delegated to the replacement JH program. So the entire idea now rests on WS-15 and using it on a future flanker. Even then there's going to be considerations on fuel and range because they would need to balance the heavy A2A missile load with range, speed, and altitude performance. The F-15EX does this because the design is just more suited for this role - high speed high altitude and a pair of excellent engines. The latest WS-10s may be up for this job but we don't know if the airframe design actually is suited.

I think the PLAAF may be far more inclined at spending development money on 6th gen and sharp sword wingman. While the JH-xx program is probably going to include the role of the missile truck. Therefore any more entirely new flanker variant is going to be unlikely.
Lol. I like your comment of the Russian and Indian logic. Indian logic is self explanatory. But Russian logic is mostly because they are no longer at the forefront of the non-nuclear arms race.

The RCS reduction effort on the J-11 series should be worth it because the Flankers still have much room for RCS reduction. For instance, the Su-35s that China bought has 1/3 the RCS of the old Su-27s. So the J-11D can adopt and improve on the RCS reduction methods from the Su-35s. More RCS reduction would at least buy some more closing distance in BVR combat. I do agree that no matter how much RCS reduction is done on the Flanker design, it is never going rival that of the latest version of light fighters like the F-16s or J-10s. This even applies to any RCS reduction efforts on the F-15s.

If the new Chinese Flankers could get WS-15s, that would be really interesting. Imagine the advanced Chinese Flankers able to add TVC, even more trust to their already formidable agility, and the ability to super-cruise. These could perhaps become the pinnacle of the Flanker design.

6th gen aircraft for the PLAAF looks like something for the future. The JH-XX is promising, but I haven't seen enough visible progress to think it is coming out anytime soon. Unless it is perhaps an adoption of the J-20 for the strike aircraft role.

Without any new 'missile truck' designs coming up in the immediate term. I think the new generation of Chinese Flankers would be the primary stopgap solution. A design that is readily available and can be readily mass-produced for the immediate needs.
 

Sardaukar20

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For the other fighters you mentioned, other users have stated that J-10C is more or less comparable with the Rafale (especially if even newer versions of the J-10 enter service). The F-16V is somewhat overrated and I have no doubts that the J-10C is at least slightly superior to it overall. Why? The J-10C benefits from reduced RCS, superior kinematic performance (although less relevant in modern aerial combat), superior weapons suite, and has IRST integrated. F-16V is a significant upgrade over older F-16C/D Block 52, but compared to the upgrades on the J-10C, the improvements are relatively limited in comparison. The F-21 is still vaporware and I doubt it would ever be inducted into Indian service. It would be a critical logistical error to induct yet another plane that their pilots have no experience with in large numbers. The relatively limited number of Rafales is probably enough of a headache, but at least they have prior experience with French Mirages. And as far as I know, the F-15EX is basically the American counterpart to the J-16.
Yes, I agree. Looking away from the Flankers, the J-10Cs are quite formidable fighters in their own right. In the right hands, these fighters can comfortably deal with IAF Rafales and ROC F-16Vs. I am aware that the F-16Vs are overrated, but so are the Rafales. The Rafales have relatively poor power-thrust ratio, and service ceiling compared to the J-10s, Flankers, and even Mirage 2000s. Its only redeeming quality against the J-10C is its vaunted ability to use the Meteor missile. Even that is not a secure margin against the PL-15 armed J-10Cs.

About the F-21. IAF induction is unlikely off course. But who knows? The Indians are going crazy today about 'Atmanirbhar Bharat'. The 101 weapons import ban is likely to sour defense ties with Russia. And Lockheed is pitching the F-21 as a 'Make In India' fighter 'by India for India'. Although it is far more logical for India to get more Rafales and Tejas. The Indian govt is not beyond such a foolish decision to procure 'Make in India' F-21s. Even if that happens, the F-21 is essentially just another F-16V.

Yes the F-15EX is a twin-seater. So that makes sense that the J-16 is its Chinese counterpart. But there are still many brand new single-seat heavy fighters still being produced like the J-11s, J-15s, and J-20s. I think doctrine wise, it is looking like there is still a big need for single-seat heavy fighters in the PLAAF. This is unlike the all-twin-seat Flankers in the IAF. So if more single seat Flankers are to be ordered, the J-11D should not be ruled out.
 

Lnk111229

Junior Member
Registered Member

They are training soldiers stationed in jungled areas for high altitude combat.
I think this old video. But nonetheless still very informative. I have several questions.
1/ 0:33 is this a group machine gun version of qbz95?. If yes then they don't use 7.62 GMG anymore?
2/ The Heavy machine gun group definitely need some mini vehicle to help them carrying ammo, supplies etc are they?
3/ And no gloves? At least those guys carrying heavy machine gun body definitely need one or they will have several dergee burn after firing those gun.
 

coolieno99

Junior Member
I think this old video. But nonetheless still very informative. I have several questions.
1/ 0:33 is this a group machine gun version of qbz95?. If yes then they don't use 7.62 GMG anymore?
2/ The Heavy machine gun group definitely need some mini vehicle to help them carrying ammo, supplies etc are they?
3/ And no gloves? At least those guys carrying heavy machine gun body definitely need one or they will have several dergee burn after firing those gun.
Here's a newer training video. The training was done on the Tibetan plateau.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Brainsuker

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think we need to get the information about India military position around Ladakh too; to compare with Chinese positioning around the stand off area. By then we can judge about the situation in Ladakh more clearly.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I remember early on the French had a hard time selling their Rafale. I even remember a US military official and someone from the Middle East were mocking it as a crap. The French had to show it off when striking Libya as an advertisement. The word was India only bought Rafales because no other Western country would give them the deal India wanted and the French were desperate to sell it.
 
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