Korean War 70 years later Win Lose and A draw

D

Deleted member 13312

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China's victory in the Korean War has significant, profound, and lasting impacts and repercussions to the world, militarily, politically, economically and financially.

Those who insist the Korean War is a Draw apparently can't handle the fact that the PLA won this war MILITARILY by driving Douglas MacAuther and his boys, including agents from Taiwan, from the Yalu River to south of the 38th Parallel.

Those who refuse to admit that China's victory in Korea has profound global ECONOMIC and FINANCIAL impacts apparently can't explain how two-thirds of US gold reserve was depleted after the end of the Korean War, forcing the US default its dollar in 1971.

Those who nay-say the necessity of China's intervention in the Korean War for POLITICAL purposes apparently can't understand why the US attacks China, nowadays, ONLY through ECONOMIC or POLITICAL platforms, such as waging a trade war, or conducting media mud-smearing, rather than through MILITARY platform, such as using gunboat diplomacy and outright military intimidation, as it did to China when it invaded Beijing one hundred years ago. American imperialism had never its color and characters in the past seventy years, but its means to bully China has changed because it has lost the ability to fight and win a military war against China in Eastern Asia.

All these are directly, closely and precisely related to America's defeat by China in Korea. They are part of the Korean War history. Only the green toads inside a well in Taiwan can't understand it.
Eh the Korean War is really one of those wars which people look at each other and wonder "Why are we fighting ?". Attempting to link the US dollar's departure from the Gold Standard ignores the fact that after the Korean War, the Vietnam War came running around which was a much more intense and expensive war that the Korean War ever was.
And economically it is idiotic to tie the growth of one's economy to a metal that is in infinite short supply and fluctuates so easily. The US gold supply depletion happens partially because the US dollar was directly convertible for gold so everyone with a dollar in their pocket started clambering to convert it.
The Korean War is significant in that it marks the beginning shot of the Cold War and the functions of the new United Nations. But it was hardly the Armageddon of our age.
 
D

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Americans also like to say they militarily won the Vietnam War.

The fact is, the Korean War can be interpreted as a draw. China succeeded in their first objective, which was to push UN forces out of NK. However, after that was accomplished, Mao instructed Peng to take the rest of the peninsula. That was unarguably a failure. In the end, the Korean War ended on the same border it began on.

I don't think it is constructive to focus on who won and who lost. It has been far more instructive to look at the ramifications of the war over the last 70 years. The Korean War shaped the PRC is very profound ways, and none of those had anything to do with whether China "won" or "lost".

IMHO, in war, everyone loses. The only thing that matters is how you deal with the consequences.
Off topic but since the Vietnam war anniversary is also drawing close. A thread on this "silly" wars might be an interesting one.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Off topic but since the Vietnam war anniversary is also drawing close. A thread on this "silly" wars might be an interesting one.
Reason I went to Korea is it’s a shorter war and can do events from a week to week basis covering the 157 weeks of events. The extra week being that the speech and meeting that sets the often pointed to prelude was this week.
 

Just4Fun

Junior Member
Registered Member
The Only Objective Criteria to Judge War Success is the Achievement of War Goals

Objectively, and fairly speaking, war victory can only be awarded to the warring side that has successfully accomplished its major strategical war goals. The warring side that has failed in its major strategical war goals is definitely a war loser since all of its war efforts, no matter how big or how small, and all of its war sacrifices, no matter how high or how low, will become meaningless waste and heavy liabilities. If you fail in your war objectives for which you go into war in the first place, while your opponent succeeds in his war objectives, you do not have any room to claim a win, or a draw. What you can claim is only a loss. This should be indisputable, unless you are a rogue pettifogger, making a living on quibbling over trivia.

China went into the Korean War with two clearly-cut objectives: (1) Help the Koreans resist American aggression; and (2) Keep the US away from its northern border to safeguard itself. The two goals were summed up in eight Chinese characters. That is "抗美援朝,保家卫国". These goals were evident from the facts that the slogan of "抗美援朝,保家卫国" was omnipresent in China, and penetrated into people's daily life throughout the Korean War. "抗美援朝,保家卫国" was the largest political campaign after the Land Reform, and motivated many new land-owners to send their young sons and daughters to the front line in Korea to fight against the US.

The US went into this war with at least two palpable objectives: (1) Wipe out the NK from the earth; and (2) Intimidate, then apprehend the newly founded PR China. These war goals were evident from the facts that the US troops pushed the fight to, and beyond the Yalu River, and the US sent its 7th Fleet, simultaneously, into Taiwan when it started intervening the Korean civil war.

In the end, China successfully accomplished its two strategical war objectives, and the US failed in its two strategical war objectives terribly. The NK was not just alive, but also sound and well. The US was pushed away from China's border. China was neither intimidated, nor apprehended. Instead, it merged from the Korean War as a fighting force to be reckoned with by every established world power.

Achieving your strategical war goals is your number one task in the war. If you failed, you are a loser. There is no other alternative interpretation. This is simple and plain. Apparently, the US is a loser. It not simply lost the war, but lost it humiliatingly. There is no humiliation bigger than a King World's well-equipped army was beaten up by a bunch of poorly-armed peasants of a backward nation in the entire history of 500-year Western Dominance since 1492.

That is, the winner and loser of the Korean War is crystal clear. The turning point where China transformed itself from the Sick-man of Asia to a world power is the Korean War. This fact is obvious. Like it or hate it, your attitude and narrative will never change it.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Honestly Russo-Japanese war in 1904 deserves that credit more.

If you're referring to the first time eastern forces defeating western forces since the beginning of the use of firearms, the credit should go all the way back to the Ming Dynasty forces defeating that of Portuguese and Dutch on China's shores and the Taiwan island.

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D

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If you're referring to the first time eastern forces defeating western forces since the beginning of the use of firearms, the credit should go all the way back to the Ming Dynasty forces defeating that of Portuguese and Dutch on China's shores and the Taiwan island.

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Not exactly, the topic is more geared towards the period of imperialism and industrial revolution of the 1700s to the 1900s. That was the period when nations actively put effort into colonialism and imperial policy. The Dutch Sino conflict was fought by a private company on the Dutch side with limited resources.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Not exactly, the topic is more geared towards the period of imperialism and industrial revolution of the 1700s to the 1900s. That was the period when nations actively put effort into colonialism and imperial policy. The Dutch Sino conflict was fought by a private company on the Dutch side with limited resources.

This was the time when the Dutch and Portuguese started to colonize South East Asia that included Malacca (a state of West Malaysia), Philippines and Indonesia. The Europeans were known to use private companies as a vehicle for colonizing other countries but ultimately they came under the control of the monarchy of the country. I don't think these companies, English/Dutch East India Company had limited resources since they single-handedly controlled the entirety of the respective country's trade with other countries
 
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D

Deleted member 13312

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This was the time when the Dutch and Portuguese started to colonize South East Asia that includes Malacca (a state of West Malaysia), Philippines and Indonesia. The Europeans were known to use private companies as a vehicle for colonizing other countries but ultimately they came under the control of the monarchy of the country.
But the monarchies give little to no direct support and command, these are companies that held exclusive charters but in the end are completely responsible for their own operations on a pure loss/profit basis.
Compare that to later colonial efforts whereby entire armies can be called for the endeavor and it is a very different scene entirely.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
But the monarchies give little to no direct support and command, these are companies that held exclusive charters but in the end are completely responsible for their own operations on a pure loss/profit basis.
Compare that to later colonial efforts whereby entire armies can be called for the endeavor and it is a very different scene entirely.

That is not exactly right The VOC or Vereeinegde Oost Indiesche companie is dutch charted conglomerat and has monopoly for 20 years on the trade of spices which is very valuable since they are used to cure meat before the invention of refrigerator.

The king of Holland and other nobility of the Dutch kingdom are their direct investor,benefactor and protector. They are what you called SOE these days not exactly pure private company. They are creation of the state. They have the right to raise army and navy. declare war and take possession of native land, promulgate law and, right to close a treaty with local king
Now which private company can do that?

Dutch East India Company
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United East India Company
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Native name
Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie
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Industry Proto-
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Fate Disintegration
Predecessor
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Founded 20 March 1602
Founder
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Defunct 31 December 1799
Headquarters
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Eurasia, Greater India
Key people
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Products Spices, silk, tea, grain, rice, soybean, sugarcane
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Courtyard of the
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(
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in Dutch). In 1611, the world's first formal stock exchange was launched by the VOC.
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of the VOC ship
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under sail
The Dutch East India Company, officially the United East India Company (
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: Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie; VOC) was a
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founded by a government-directed amalgamation of several rival Dutch trading companies (
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) in the early 17th century.
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It was established on 20 March 1602, as a
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to trade with
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during the period of
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,
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from which 50% of textiles and 80% of silks were imported, chiefly from its most developed region known as
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.
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In addition, the company traded with
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Southeast Asian countries when the
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granted it a 21-year monopoly on the Dutch
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. It has been often labelled a
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(i.e. a company of
 
D

Deleted member 13312

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That is not exactly right The VOC or Vereeinegde Oost Indiesche companie is dutch charted conglomerat and has monopoly for 20 years on the trade of spices which is very valuable since they are used to cure meat before the invention of refrigerator.

The king of Holland and other nobility of the Dutch kingdom are their direct investor,benefactor and protector. They are what you called SOE these days not exactly pure private company. They are creation of the state. They have the right to raise army and navy. declare war and take possession of native land, promulgate law and, right to close a treaty with local king
Now which private company can do that?

Dutch East India Company
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For other uses, see
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.
United East India Company
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Native name
Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie
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Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Industry Proto-
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Fate Disintegration
Predecessor
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Founded 20 March 1602
Founder
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Defunct 31 December 1799
Headquarters
Area served
Eurasia, Greater India
Key people
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Products Spices, silk, tea, grain, rice, soybean, sugarcane
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Courtyard of the
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(
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in Dutch). In 1611, the world's first formal stock exchange was launched by the VOC.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

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of the VOC ship
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under sail
The Dutch East India Company, officially the United East India Company (
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: Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie; VOC) was a
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founded by a government-directed amalgamation of several rival Dutch trading companies (
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) in the early 17th century.
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It was established on 20 March 1602, as a
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to trade with
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during the period of
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,
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from which 50% of textiles and 80% of silks were imported, chiefly from its most developed region known as
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.
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In addition, the company traded with
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Southeast Asian countries when the
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granted it a 21-year monopoly on the Dutch
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. It has been often labelled a
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(i.e. a company of
But the point remains, can the Company call up the navy and armada of the Dutch Empire to fight on their behalf ? The answer would be no, they can raise armies and navies yes but the cost will be entirely footed by them and not the monarch in question. The state puts a clear line between what kind of resources they can call up on their operations.
And yes while the Monarch is their main benefector and investor, day to day operation lies with the board of the company rather than the throne.
 
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