Engine not powerful enough, unless they can expand the intake, getter a more powerful engine with the same size, or just stick another engine in (like F-18) it's not going to be hitting Mach 2.0
JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 News, Discussion & Media
- Thread starter crazyinsane105
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Engine not powerful enough, unless they can expand the intake, getter a more powerful engine with the same size, or just stick another engine in (like F-18) it's not going to be hitting Mach 2.0
maglomanic
Junior Member
I thought TP was talking about a need for a belly intake like J-10 and not about dimensions of JF-17's intake. Ofcourse thats a given that it will have to increase to facilitate more thrust of the engine. Not only the size and dimension of the intake needs to change but also some kind of system to compress the supersonic inflow and make it appropriate for engine combustion. Boundary layer would ofcourse be solved with redesigning the bump if possible.
I don't know that much about aerodynamics of a plane, so I will try to take a crack with my limited knowledge.
The maximum speed of a fighter is limited by the kind of intake it has. A complex variable intake like J-10 allows it to reach mach2.34 on high altitude. JF-17 on the other hand uses a similar intake to that of F-35 (you can check on F-35's maximum speed) and flies at lower maximum altitude.
A quick example, despite the fact that F-22 can do supersonic cruise without afterburner at mach1.7 (or maybe even more), F-15 using the same engines can actually fly faster using afterburners.
skyhawk2005
Banned Idiot
Only for first 50 remember!
And i even know why you doubt that
From Super-7 to Pt-1 and then from Pt-1 to Pt-4 , yes indeed i totally agree with you there is no evidence to suggest that anyone would ever commit the sacrilage of improving this cursed design.
Errr...you just don't get it do you? To change the JF17 to an J10 is going to be expensive, and impossible. JF17 is a cheap, lightweight fighter. That is all it will be. It cannot magically transform into a J10 through gradual improvements.
If you want a J10, then buy the J10. Simple as that!
And where do you get that the RD93 will only be used for the first 50? I've read that only the first 50 will use Chinese Avionics, but I had thought that the reason Russian will allow China to export RD93's to Pakistan is for business sake. THey want to make money. DO you think they will be ok if it is such a small order? Only 50?
Most likely, Pakistan will receive it's entire batch of JF17s with RD93s.
It will take a long time for WS13 to get ready for production. Even the WS10a is still not used on J10s, or is only tested. Most of the J10s are using AL31FNs.
Maybe by 2010, WS13a will be ready, but for now, Pakistan will use RD93s.
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posted by huitong on hsh
"枭龙”飞机小批生产和首架ARJ21飞机机头制造交付是一航成飞的“两大攻坚战”，要完成全年任务，必须确保打好这“两大攻坚战”
“枭龙”飞机项目是一航成飞全年最大的新的经济增长点，是军机外贸升级换代的主打产品。“两框两梁”是全机最重要的大型数控零件，该零件在制造领域很少见且加工成本极高。为缩短加工周期，一航成飞开展了“两框两梁”技术攻关,大胆采用新工艺方法，加工周期缩短20%。截至12月，他们共完成了接近6架份 “枭龙”飞机的零件加工任务；完成了主油箱等4项大型工装装配型架的设计和制造，并对垂尾装配型架进行了设计改进。在装配制造过程中，一航成飞根据多机型的特点，采取平行交叉作业，生产管理统筹兼顾。截至目前，“枭龙”飞机已全部进入试飞阶段，累计实现154个飞行起落。"
Basically mentions to achievements of CAC. One is producing the head of ARJ-21 and the other is finishing the parts for 6 JF-17s, finished main fuel tank, kept making changes to the tail. Up to now, JF-17 is fully in filght testing stage and has accumulated 154 flights.
"枭龙”飞机小批生产和首架ARJ21飞机机头制造交付是一航成飞的“两大攻坚战”，要完成全年任务，必须确保打好这“两大攻坚战”
“枭龙”飞机项目是一航成飞全年最大的新的经济增长点，是军机外贸升级换代的主打产品。“两框两梁”是全机最重要的大型数控零件，该零件在制造领域很少见且加工成本极高。为缩短加工周期，一航成飞开展了“两框两梁”技术攻关,大胆采用新工艺方法，加工周期缩短20%。截至12月，他们共完成了接近6架份 “枭龙”飞机的零件加工任务；完成了主油箱等4项大型工装装配型架的设计和制造，并对垂尾装配型架进行了设计改进。在装配制造过程中，一航成飞根据多机型的特点，采取平行交叉作业，生产管理统筹兼顾。截至目前，“枭龙”飞机已全部进入试飞阶段，累计实现154个飞行起落。"
Basically mentions to achievements of CAC. One is producing the head of ARJ-21 and the other is finishing the parts for 6 JF-17s, finished main fuel tank, kept making changes to the tail. Up to now, JF-17 is fully in filght testing stage and has accumulated 154 flights.
maglomanic
Junior Member
That seriously sounds very childish dude!
First we are not talking about converting JF-17 into J-10.
Secondly, If you havent noticed already PAF is getting J-10.
Thirdly someone mentioned something about increasing the speed of JF-17, that doesn't translate into converting JF-17 into J-10. It's just another field performance parameter, which in my opinion is totally unnecessary and won't be pursued by PAF.
For now just consider the first 50 to be frozen with the specs that you have or i have for that matter. The reason China will discontinue RD-93 and swtich to WS-13 is agian business sake. One which makes sense as well. For russian they are trying to get whatever they can out of the deals that are coming their way.
Remeber what Kilmov's official was saying? a frank assesment that someone else will get the deal if they didn't sell China.
And i m pretty confident WS-13 will be introduced as an upgrade.
Now first i don't think WS-13 should take that long. From the reports that have been appearing it is in advanced stages of testing. Secondly don't bring in ws-10 . For all we know there are bunch of J-10s flying with WS-10.
Even if we go by your 2010 date, i think PAF will be just done with it's 50+ fighters by then.
skyhawk2005
Banned Idiot
You still don't get it. JF17 can never be a J10. Adding a more powerful engine, using composites, changing this, changing that. redesigning this to do x, y, z. but the Jf17 can never be a true multi-role fighter. It is a light fighter with limited payload capacity. It's very good fighter, but it's abiltiies cannot be greatly improved to be something it cannot be.
If the WS13 could be ready for mass production in a few short months, why then did China and Pakistan even discuss with Russia/Klimov about exporting RD93 to Pakistan? Obviously, China does not expect to mass produce the WS13a for some time. This is years away. If the WS10A is still not mass produced, then how can the WS13A be in a few short months? Yo uare dreaming. Engines are not like making stuffed toys.
Yeah, advanced stages of testing. LOL. It's not even certified yet. And even after certification, it will require further testing. And why not bring in WS10A into this? The production difficulties and delay of the WS10A illustrate how difficult engines are to mass produce. You are way too optimistic that it borders on ridiculous.
Again, pakistanese really think making a plane is like making cheesecake. Add some whip cream, and strawberries and improve it. I dont' think so!
Don't worry though. One day, Pakistan will get J10s, but for now, you guys should be really happy with the JF17.
Diving Falcon
Junior Member
Dude, we're not talking about turning JF-17 into a fighter as good as J-10! There is a reason why PAF bought F-16s and soon J-10s! We are talking about giving JF-17 some physical improvements to increase its maximum speed and some structural changes - such as addition as composites.
We did not say anything about WS-13 being available in a few months. In fact, both of us believe that WS-13 will be a future upgrade for JF-17; alongside IRST, IFR, new avionics and new radar. The RD-93 is required for the immediate time frame, but in the long-run - PAF will likely change to WS-13.
ok..."advanced stages of testing" vary for many people. I meant as in it is a couple of years away, you mean it is as it'll be ready next month, etc. So please be more specific when you say stuff.
skyhawk2005
Banned Idiot
In other words, you want a near J10 level plane. ************
************ Any engine will take a long time to be fully certified, and mass produced. Again, I give you the example of WS10A. It took the Chinese a long time, and its still not mass produced. WS13a won't take as long, but it's a project that is very new.
Whatever. You take one article and you misunderstand it, and jump for joy like excited fleas.
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