JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

thunderchief

Senior Member
Last few sentences are most interesting , ones about acquiring enough engines from Russia for new JF-17s (up to 250) . This may explain why Pakistan has not aggressively marketed JF-17 to foreign buyers . Simply saying , deal with Russia may include clause that prohibits resale of engines , in order to avoid competition with Russian fighters .

For a moment , PAF is satisfied to acquire this fighter for itself , and only later when WS-13 becomes available , they will attempt to export it to foreign customers .
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Last few sentences are most interesting , ones about acquiring enough engines from Russia for new JF-17s (up to 250) . This may explain why Pakistan has not aggressively marketed JF-17 to foreign buyers . Simply saying , deal with Russia may include clause that prohibits resale of engines , in order to avoid competition with Russian fighters .

For a moment , PAF is satisfied to acquire this fighter for itself , and only later when WS-13 becomes available , they will attempt to export it to foreign customers .

I'll be honest and have said it before the only reason JF-17 hasn't secured export orders is due to engine, the first question any foreign delegation asks is what engine this aircraft uses

WS-13 is behind than WS-10 so I think it's a long way away, a shame yes but thats just the way it is
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
I'll be honest and have said it before the only reason JF-17 hasn't secured export orders is due to engine, the first question any foreign delegation asks is what engine this aircraft uses

WS-13 is behind than WS-10 so I think it's a long way away, a shame yes but thats just the way it is

Well , I would say it's a shame some kind of tripartite deal cannot be reached between Pakistan , China and Russia . It is obvious that Mig-29M/Mig-35 cannot be a replacement for all those Mig-21s in Third World countries . It's a medium fighter and not really cheap either . As far as I know , Russia doesn't have a light fighter , not even in the design . Therefore , there is no real competition between JF-17 and Russian fighters . With Russian cooperation mass production could be setup quickly , prices could fall and lot of money could be made . But , alas , it was not meant to be :(
 

Zahid

Junior Member
I should have also included that the aircraft would have the appropriate avionics and ECM instrumentation comparable to the FC-1. With that in mind the aircraft is more of a 4+ generation aircraft that the FC-1. Yes it is small, but then so is the Gripen (smaller than the Mig-21) and the Gripen is a very capable aircraft.

Given similar or better avionics, more maneuverable and more flight hours. Why not consider it. Granted the useful load to range many be less. However are you really going to hang stuff on the aircraft like a Christmas tree or use it in a specific strike or intercept roll?

Sir,

1. The Useful load figures for FC-1 / JF-17 seem to be wrong. It was 3600 KG, and then this figure was revised upwards close to 4000 KG. I do not think that your figures are quite correct.

2. JF-17 is a true multi-role. With the just 550KM range L-15 can be nothing other than a point defence fighter in addition to being a trainer.

3. While the TWR for L-15 is reportedly greater than 1, that is really because of the limited fuel capacity. At similar fuel capacity FC-1 / JF-17 could have a similar TWR as well.

4. It is important to note that FC-1 / JF-17 has probably the lowest operating cost of multi-role combat jets. That is because it is single engine, has easy access to parts and components that need to be serviced. Consequently it has a much shorter turn-around time. It also needs comparatively fewer support staff. In a war scenario these things count. I doubt that with two engines L-15 could match these advantages. Its two engines might be good for redundancy, and then the question arises if it can stay aloft with one engine. If it can not do that, then what real advantage could it have with its being twin-engined?

5. While PAF is considering installing a bigger and better AESA radar in Block III, I doubt one could do much within the limitations of L-15. Just look at the nose to see the maximum size of radar it can carry. It is not merely a matter of spending money to get a better radar / avionics.

6. What types of weapons can L-15 carry? That is an important question. How many hard points does it have, what is the capacity of those hardpoints? Can it carry a potent BVR missile? Can it have a RADAR with greater range than a possible BVR missile?

7. The service life of an aircraft can not conclusively be determined in advance. A lot depend upon the use. A lot also depends upon the capacity and capability to upgrade the airframe and aircraft. PAF is still flying 45 years old Mirages. So the question of life of an aircraft is relative and depends upon design, usage, and overhaul. I do not know what usage do the jet trainers go through, but it can not be as gruelling as a hard hitting multi-role combat airplane.

8. You have mentioned that L-15 is more manueverable. I wonder how you arrived at that conclusion? It is certainly not as fast. Moreover, with future engine upgrade with RD-93MA or WS-13, JF-17's TWR is set to rise above 1. Once the plane gets full FBW as it should, it would go beyond that too with all the weight saving etc...

I am sure that L-15 is good for its own niche. But it can hardly be suitable for roles for which FC-1 / JF-17 has been designed. For all the hassle of converting a trainer into a true combat plane, it would be better to just go ahead and purchase a well-designed combat plane.

Once specifications for JF-17 Block III are released, we can truly appreciate its capabilities and potential.
 
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thunderchief

Senior Member
Its two engines might be good for redundancy, and then the question arises if it can stay aloft with one engine. If it can not do that, then what real advantage could it have with its being twin-engined?

Yes it can , and that is only real advantage L-15 has over JF-17 - if let's say one engine is knocked-out by MANPAD or AAA , aircraft could still limp back home on one engine .
 

lcloo

Captain
From the pix asif posted, I just don't understand how come there are so many trees on the runway?

It looks like motor highway than airport runway, I dont see any markers usually found on airfields. And the small brick huts looked out of place. May be they were drilling on emergency landing and take-off on motor highway?
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
From the pix asif posted, I just don't understand how come there are so many trees on the runway?

A good question that is actually PAF Minhas in Attock Pakistan I know this only because I live on the base when I travel back to Pakistan, a few years ago I was almost silly enough to post picture of the base right here on SDF and a few months later Taliban attacked it using Google map and internet

Anyhow PAF Minhas lies just off GT Road; actually it sits on GT Road which a very historical road is dating back centuries if not millennia, GT Road stands for Great Trunk Road

The air force base houses everything from MRF to PAC, its home to thousands of people, teachers, doctors, nurses, pilots and all their family’s it’s like a mini-city it’s got parks, green areas and play grounds and the whole base is surrounded by trees all the way along its borders from the inside and the outside, some parts really thick and dense tree coverage so anyone from the outside cannot see inside, on the inside the story is not much different, many parts of the base are not visible from other parts of the base itself, there is many concealed areas of which some have the new Spada 2000 SAM system installed under camouflage , inside every road or path has trees however the main runway does not, so I believe these pictures is not taken of the main runway but some taxi way which has tree coverage, in Kamra you can never be far away from trees there’s just so many entire buildings are covered by them, so this is why we see trees so close to the taxi ways in these pictures
 

ladioussupp

Junior Member
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Another interesting point which I knew from before is that the JF-17 can datalink to Link-16 albeit via a ground station

This means Erieyes can direct JF-17 to the fight scene if required but I would guess ZDK-03 is good for that purpose too

This was reported in March, 2011.

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However, Link-16 line-of-sight communication can be used to relative positioning independent from satellite positioning system. It may be the key from sensor to shooter by passing critical target data ready for tracking or fire-control.
 
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