JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Mohsin77]

The latest example once again was the JF-17 Block 3's HUD, which is SIMILAR but not exactly the same to the J-20's, and immediately they came to the conclusion or even took this as proof, the PAF might get the J-20.

lolz, of course. An even better argument is that we have the J-20 already... It's just missing 99.9% of the parts, besides the HUD.. But we can always order those later on Alibaba (with free shipping!)

 

[Chish]

C802s have always been subsonic.

And its highest profile had been the disabling of the Israeli navy corvette INS Hanit during the 2006 Lebanon war.

 

[plawolf]

And its highest profile had been the disabling of the Israeli navy corvette INS Hanit during the 2006 Lebanon war.

Technically, it nailed the onboard helicopter idling on the helipad, otherwise had it connected with the ship proper that tiny corvette would have been obliterated.

Must be the first ever recorded aircraft kill by an AShM.

 

[free_6ix9ine]

With all the recent rumors about the WS-19 undergoing tests and the WS-13IPE going into production, is there any chance that the JF-17 will receive the WS-19 in the future? Supposedly the WS-19 is similar in size to the RD-93/33 that the JF-17 uses, but way more powerful. The RD-33 feels like such a sore spot for such an amazing plane.

I know this will be about pure speculation, but I really do like the JF-17 and would love to see it get upgraded with a better engine which combined with its BVR capabilities will make a pretty mean fighter.

 

[plawolf]

With all the recent rumors about the WS-19 undergoing tests and the WS-13IPE going into production, is there any chance that the JF-17 will receive the WS-19 in the future? Supposedly the WS-19 is similar in size to the RD-93/33 that the JF-17 uses, but way more powerful. The RD-33 feels like such a sore spot for such an amazing plane.

I know this will be about pure speculation, but I really do like the JF-17 and would love to see it get upgraded with a better engine which combined with its BVR capabilities will make a pretty mean fighter.
View attachment 58017

You can see serrated petals on that nozzle. Also, the dimensions seem way too big for R33/93 class engines and more in line with WS10.

If the JF17 was to get an engine upgrade, blk 3 would have been the time. Unless they revise the blk 3 design before it goes into full production, I just don’t see it being worthwhile timeframe wise.

The PAF should be shifting their primary R&D resources towards 5th gens rather than continue messing around with the JF17.

Sure, you can still revise and upgrade the JF17 beyond the BLK3 standard to add all sorts of things like a more powerful engine, with TVC as well if you want; IRST; conformal fuel tanks; LEVCONs as well if you are feeling crazy.

But even with all those bells and whistles, would the JF17 be better than a Rafale? I would think that unlikely, so is the juice worth the squeeze?

The JF17 has been a real revelation for the PAF, the BLK3 especially, as it allowed them to close both the quantity and quality gap with the IAF.

The biggest benefit of the JF17 is that it has bought PAF is time to look at further prospects by giving the PAF an affordable, domestically produced fighter than can give the IAF real pause now and in the near future.

Pakistan should not waste that precious time overdoing the bells and whistles on the JF17 and should instead look towards the next fighter to follow it.

 

[free_6ix9ine]

The PAF should be shifting their primary R&D resources towards 5th gens rather than continue messing around with the JF17.

I don't know too much about PAF's fifth generation program, but I have serious doubts as to whether Pakistan can get this off the ground in the next 10 years. Where will the PAF even get a suitable engine for a 5th Gen project?

China's WS-15 has not entered service yet, we don't even know at what development stage it is in, since there are no photos of any test aircrafts with the WS-15, the WS-15 could take another 10-15 years to even go into production, its anybody's guess right now. Even if it goes into service, China probably doesn't have the ability to produce a lot of WS-15 per year, and the J-20 needs them as well.

Russia doesn't really have a fifth gen engine in service either, the ALS-41 is in the same league as China's WS-10G, which is basically an upgraded AL-31. Even if Russia finishes developing the izdeliye 30 for the SU-57, there is no way they would sell it to Pakistan, because of Russia's dependence on India.

The USA is the only country with an actual 5th gen suitable engine, but given the political climate, I doubt the US will offer it to Pakistan.

And that's just the engine, nvm all the other complex subsystems such as avionics, radar, missiles, etc.

 

[Mohsin77]

I have serious doubts as to whether Pakistan can get this off the ground in the next 10 years.

... that's not a bug, it's a feature of project azm. It's supposed to take that long, which is why we need to put the block III into production and stop focusing on it.

And I suspect the engine for our 5th gen would end up being the same as that for the final version of the FC-31... And it wouldn't surprise me if at the end of that 10 years, project azm = a local version of the J-31 (Block II etc.)

Anyways, that is a whole separate discussion

 

[foxmulder_ms]

You can see serrated petals on that nozzle. Also, the dimensions seem way too big for R33/93 class engines and more in line with WS10.

If the JF17 was to get an engine upgrade, blk 3 would have been the time. Unless they revise the blk 3 design before it goes into full production, I just don’t see it being worthwhile timeframe wise.

The PAF should be shifting their primary R&D resources towards 5th gens rather than continue messing around with the JF17.

Sure, you can still revise and upgrade the JF17 beyond the BLK3 standard to add all sorts of things like a more powerful engine, with TVC as well if you want; IRST; conformal fuel tanks; LEVCONs as well if you are feeling crazy.

But even with all those bells and whistles, would the JF17 be better than a Rafale? I would think that unlikely, so is the juice worth the squeeze?

The JF17 has been a real revelation for the PAF, the BLK3 especially, as it allowed them to close both the quantity and quality gap with the IAF.

The biggest benefit of the JF17 is that it has bought PAF is time to look at further prospects by giving the PAF an affordable, domestically produced fighter than can give the IAF real pause now and in the near future.

Pakistan should not waste that precious time overdoing the bells and whistles on the JF17 and should instead look towards the next fighter to follow it.

Actually I think the engine is almost a perfect match to rd93 dimensions. You can even see the slight narrowing right at the petal/engine connection area. You can also see another signature pattern of rd-33 derivatives where inner petals are significantly longer than the outer ones. You see the serrated nozzles as you said which makes me think this can be indeed ws-19.

 

[Blitzo]

You can see serrated petals on that nozzle. Also, the dimensions seem way too big for R33/93 class engines and more in line with WS10.

I don't think the picture can tell us how big it is.

All of the rumours from the usual sources have said this engine is meant to be an EJ200 or F414 class engine -- i.e.: it would therefore be an engine in the same size category as RD93/33 and F404. We know WS-19 is being developed for the 5th gen carrier fighter derived from FC-31. It is being called a medium thrust engine for a reason.

WS-15 otoh should have similar physical dimensions to WS-10, aiming for F119 thrust class (which of course in turn is similar in physical dimensions to F110, F100 and Al-31 and WS-10 as well).


So theoretically I think yes, the idea of WS-19 powering JF-17 is not impossible, however I agree with you in that it would be a poor use of resources for Pakistan.

 

[ougoah]

WS-10G and higher thrust variants are almost at F119 thrust levels aren't they? At least afterburner thrust is near F119. Dry thrust a way off.

I was always under the impression the revised WS-15 that will reach service is at F135 afterburner thrust levels and around F119 dry while being of a similar volume as WS-10.