JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[ougoah]

Since I'm one of those Chinese chauvinists you referred to (hell, I'm the arch-chauvinist), I'll weigh in on this. First though, I have to say that I'm pleasantly surprised this whole topic is still going strong in this thread. I gave Turkey the verbal smack 10 pages ago
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/jf-17-fc-1-fighter-aircraft-thread.t5634/page-482#post-583157
and it's touched off a firestorm that's still going strong. That's what I love about SDF - you guys will take a topic and strip it to the bone. It also tells me that there's a real hunger for political debate (along with all the jostling it entails) around here. People here hold PDF in disdain, but for all its faults it's a much freer and more open forum than this one.

Haha ZeEa5kPul sorry I did not mean you at all! The Chinese chauvinist part was just my observation from PDF where some members go on the offensive and reciprocate the arrogance many Pakistani, Turkish, and Indian chauvinists hold which is expected and understandable of course.

Freer and more open are one way to describe it. Other adjectives can include chaotic, disorganised, chauvinistic, tribal, unintelligent. I'd prefer moderation and a clean environment which STILL allows for all sorts of opinions and perspectives. The discourse between "opposing sides" on SDF is undeniably better quality than PDF. Anyway apologies for off topic talk.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

@Mohsin77 thank you for the recommendations. I've already grabbed the first book.

Haha ZeEa5kPul sorry I did not mean you at all! The Chinese chauvinist part was just my observation from PDF where some members go on the offensive and reciprocate the arrogance many Pakistani, Turkish, and Indian chauvinists hold which is expected and understandable of course.

Don't worry about it, Chinese chauvinist is how I describe myself.
I'm one of the worst of them on PDF. I love it, in a sense... it gives me the freedom to get into verbal altercations and spew venom so I'm sort of calmed down when I engage here.

Freer and more open are one way to describe it. Other adjectives can include chaotic, disorganised, chauvinistic, tribal, unintelligent.

One can't exist without the other. I think I've reached a point in my political philosophy where I consider "freedom" a synonym for "chaotic, disorganised, chauvinistic, tribal, unintelligent."

The discourse between "opposing sides" on SDF is undeniably better quality than PDF.

I'll put it this way: I'm happy both PDF and SDF exist.

To go way off topic before the mods nuke this exchange, and in keeping with the theme of Middle Eastern geopolitics, General Qassem Soleimani was recently assassinated by the US in Baghdad. The reports are piling up and they seem credible - I find myself shocked and saddened. A great soldier has fallen today.

Let's hope this isn't an Archduke Ferdinand moment.

 

[plawolf]

Before people get too caught up with emotions, it is worth noticing that with weapons procurement, politics also play a big part in any decision on what is bought and from whom. Just because Pakistan bought xyz from Turkey does not necessarily mean that is the best available to Pakistan.

Also, people should not be quite so naive as to think that what is reported in the news is the full picture. Pakistan have been masterful in using foreign companies to leverage China into releasing more capable systems for the JF17.

Anyone who thinks China managed to make a brand new radar in a couple short years to beat out the Italian Grifo that the PAF were initially favouring for the Blk1s really need to get a better understanding of how radar development works. China didn’t build a brand new radar to beat the competition, but rather it released a more advanced radar for export that was previously not allowed to be sold, and it took that long to vet and modify it to the PLA’s satisfaction that it won’t pose an unacceptable security breach while also meeting the PAF’s requirements.

Weapons procurement only cuts out the political BS when there is a realistic prospect of a country actually needing those weapons for their primary purpose of war fighting. As such, it would be interesting to see just how many foreign systems are incorporated into the blk3, since India’s military adventurism this year should have helped focus minds a little in Pakistan. My guess is not a lot.

There have been a lot of praise about how well the jamming pods on the JF17 worked against the IAF. So I think that gave the JF17 BLK3 a huge shot in the arm as it removed any doubt the PAF might have had in Chinese equipment just as the Pakistani government was given a wake up call on how important a capable military is to deter Indian aggression.

 

[OrientalGamer]

My 5 cents opinions,
1. Pakistan won't get 5 th gen fighter before India, cause nobody want to piss india off.
2. jf17 generally cannot compete with rafale, but may get a chance with pl15 in bvr.
3. Integrate turkish weapons to jf17 is not a problem to china, but turkey might not want to leak the spec to china.

btw, just find this forum, the register process in PDF is like CIA questioning. The religious emotion and non-sense in that forum are ridiculous, iranian says they don't need foreign tech after sanctions cause they are self sufficient, turk says their tech is far ahead of china, pakistani cringes and talk about ToT. They should change it to IDF - Islamic Defence Forum and merge it with the well-known IDF, then they can busy fighting

 

[ougoah]

My 5 cents opinions,
1. Pakistan won't get 5 th gen fighter before India, cause nobody want to piss india off.
2. jf17 generally cannot compete with rafale, but may get a chance with pl15 in bvr.
3. Integrate turkish weapons to jf17 is not a problem to china, but turkey might not want to leak the spec to china.

btw, just find this forum, the register process in PDF is like CIA questioning. The religious emotion and non-sense in that forum are ridiculous, iranian says they don't need foreign tech after sanctions cause they are self sufficient, turk says their tech is far ahead of china, pakistani cringes and talk about ToT. They should change it to IDF - Islamic Defence Forum and merge it with the well-known IDF, then they can busy fighting

For your point 1. I think Pakistan is well beyond pissing India off and vice versa. Well and truly beyond. If they can each field 7th gen fighters tomorrow somehow, they would and they would use them too. The general balance of military ability between the two is what keeps everything from blazing... that and nuclear weapons.

2. If it can get a chance at BVR thanks to AESA and PL-15 (if PL-15 is even compatible with blk 3) then it can compete with Rafale. WVR is mostly down to pilot skill and other factors outside of the fighters.

3. Not a problem certainly. It is officially a Pakistani fighter as well after all.

Welcome to SDF! I think the recent sentiments on China from Turks and some Pakistanis, has been encouraged by the Islamic identity. However it is really only the Turks and Pakistanis in the Islamic world who are more inclined to call China out for the Uighur issues. Combine this with the unbelievable exaggeration from western propaganda and it's easy to understand why many are upset with the CCP. Of course that's not to say the CCP doesn't have a heavy handed way about dealing with social issues... any ones and regardless of the religion or race of the perpetrators. Look at Shen Yun and Fa Lun Gong for just another example of anti CCP propaganda and how the CCP deals with threats to its legitimacy and the threat these things pose to Chinese society at large.

It's now been proven that the numbers made up (over a million) by western press were falsified and the source was one man who actually admitted to not having credible information and basically making up a figure. Unfortunately China just has to understand this PR battle is so set up against us because it's the only effective weapon our enemies have on us. They've tried every which way to topple the CCP and destroy China.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Check the sources they are referring to!

 

[OrientalGamer]

For your point 1. I think Pakistan is well beyond pissing India off and vice versa. Well and truly beyond. If they can each field 7th gen fighters tomorrow somehow, they would and they would use them too. The general balance of military ability between the two is what keeps everything from blazing... that and nuclear weapons.

2. If it can get a chance at BVR thanks to AESA and PL-15 (if PL-15 is even compatible with blk 3) then it can compete with Rafale. WVR is mostly down to pilot skill and other factors outside of the fighters.

3. Not a problem certainly. It is officially a Pakistani fighter as well after all.

Welcome to SDF! I think the recent sentiments on China from Turks and some Pakistanis, has been encouraged by the Islamic identity. However it is really only the Turks and Pakistanis in the Islamic world who are more inclined to call China out for the Uighur issues. Combine this with the unbelievable exaggeration from western propaganda and it's easy to understand why many are upset with the CCP. Of course that's not to say the CCP doesn't have a heavy handed way about dealing with social issues... any ones and regardless of the religion or race of the perpetrators. Look at Shen Yun and Fa Lun Gong for just another example of anti CCP propaganda and how the CCP deals with threats to its legitimacy and the threat these things pose to Chinese society at large.

It's now been proven that the numbers made up (over a million) by western press were falsified and the source was one man who actually admitted to not having credible information and basically making up a figure. Unfortunately China just has to understand this PR battle is so set up against us because it's the only effective weapon our enemies have on us. They've tried every which way to topple the CCP and destroy China.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Check the sources they are referring to!

1. I don’t think Pakistan can develop a fighter without heavy foreign assist - non Muslim country, and yes, the only country in this world want to piss India off is Pakistan.

2. If Pakistan has full understanding of the code then it’s not a problem, I have no idea how deep is this joint venture. but why you didn’t get the Turkish pod on blk 2?

I mean they really believe what they claimed from deep mind just like Hindus.

 

[Dizasta1]

People also claimed that Pakistan wouldn't be a nuclear power. People claimed that JF-17 Thunder would never fly, China and Pakistan proved them wrong. People claimed that Pakistan wouldn't survive the decade before disintegrating, post 1971. Then there were those who had all but given up hope for Pakistan after a decade of being ruled by corrupt, traitor, parasitic politicians (that ought to be burned at the stake). Yet, today, Pakistan has elected a leader who is actually honest, has dignity and honor, serving as Prime Minister.

So please, under estimate Pakistan, at your own peril. We encourage you tell us that we cannot do this or that. It would be our pleasure to prove our detractors, wrong!!

 

[ougoah]

1. I don’t think Pakistan can develop a fighter without heavy foreign assist - non Muslim country, and yes, the only country in this world want to piss India off is Pakistan.

2. If Pakistan has full understanding of the code then it’s not a problem, I have no idea how deep is this joint venture. but why you didn’t get the Turkish pod on blk 2?

I mean they really believe what they claimed from deep mind just like Hindus.

India often also invites conflict. Look at what's happening in India now not just within India but re Kashmir and Pakistan. Also China has issues with India too when we consider border disputes and the support of the delusional self proclaimed man-god in Tibet. Bangladesh and Nepal have had their share of issues with India.

PDF is a cesspit. It is a true reflection of the worst qualities of humanity. Best not read or post there. If you do, try to not bring that toxic hellish crap out of PDF. It will ruin your mind and destroy your soul. I posted there years ago and still occasionally read some forums on specific military threads for updates but many threads are either created as abuse threads or evolve into abuse threads.

 

[timepass]

1. I don’t think Pakistan can develop a fighter without heavy foreign assist - non Muslim country, and yes, the only country in this world want to piss India off is Pakistan.

2. If Pakistan has full understanding of the code then it’s not a problem, I have no idea how deep is this joint venture. but why you didn’t get the Turkish pod on blk 2?

I mean they really believe what they claimed from deep mind just like Hindus.

Welcome newly born baby ..... just Hatched!!

Kindly care to elaborate your emotions ... don't know from where you are but I don't see any reason to bring religion to discussion ... Attention MoDs kindly educate this new baby....

By following your mentality, then US/EU or British corporation is christ corporation or US/Israel is Jewish??

Hence, in future avoid bringing religion in your conversations ...

 

[MastanKhan]

Always a despicable comment from you---. Maybe that is what you are---.