plawolf
Lieutenant General
Like the F16, wingtip missiles would have been part of the aerodynamic design, meaning the bird flies better with wingtip missiles than without.
JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
- Thread starter johnqh
- Start date
Like the F16, wingtip missiles would have been part of the aerodynamic design, meaning the bird flies better with wingtip missiles than without.
WS-13 has no practical use case and relevance other than be a marginally improved RD-93. Funding further development and sustaining a production base for these engines would draw very precious high skilled labor and unnecessary supply chain traffic. China knows how to manufacture the RD-93 variant. Let Russia continue to supply the RD-93 using its existing production base.
I don't think WS-19 will ever be fit in JF-17 @Mohsin77
WS-19 seems to be a very competent and advanced engine. Don't you think allocating WS-19 for JF-17 be a poor use of engine ?
But Pakistani project Azm would be a good use-case. WS-19 would help supply enough power for all the advanced Turkish/Chinese/Pakistani goodies on the new aircraft.
I don't think WS-19 will ever be fit in JF-17 @Mohsin77
WS-19 seems to be a very competent and advanced engine. Don't you think allocating WS-19 for JF-17 be a poor use of engine ?
But Pakistani project Azm would be a good use-case. WS-19 would help supply enough power for all the advanced Turkish/Chinese/Pakistani goodies on the new aircraft.
The Pakistanis insisted that they would like to use Russian engines instead of Chinese ones.
It does not seem like they have installed the new AESA radar, yet. Can't wait to see the battle ready block III in service with PAF.High-resolution images.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Btw so no IRST?
I would liked to have seen a J10C style IRST
I would liked to have seen a J10C style IRST
I agree, the PAF needs to switch priorities to Project Azm asap. Shouldn't wait any longer for further major changes to the Thunder platform, just install the AESA and onboard it in good numbers.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
project Azm will be just modified FC-35
I highly doubt Pakistan will develop a new ground up fighter
This may be a little bit too political for this forum, but I really think this nonsense has to end. Installing Turkish (or other foreign) avionics on a Chinese/Pakistani aircraft is an insult to China's electronics industry. Pakistan doesn't stand a snowball's chance of building a fifth generation fighter on its own, so China has a fair bit of leverage here, especially if it's also providing financing on favourable terms. America is very good at this sort of thing - just imagine what it would do if Pakistan thought about putting Turkish anything on its F-16s - and China should take a page from its playbook on this. If Pakistan wants China's gift card, it spends it at China's store.
Turkey is especially problematic. Turkey has delusional neo-Ottoman designs on China's territory, and the entire ETIM terrorist movement and those in its orbit are sustained by Turkey. One of China's long-term strategic objectives should be to dissolve the economic and defence (and eventually cultural and historical) links between Pakistan and Turkey, and such a policy of barring Turkish involvement in Chinese defence products is a small step in the right direction.
Pakistan Can't.
No offense intended but I doubt the fruits of Pakistani efforts towards a 5 gen, where countries like South Korea and Turkey seem to have been hit with the proverbial brick to the face, due to lack of a good aircraft Manufacturing industry. And talk about South Korea with Hanwha, Samsung, Hyundai etc facing challenges! That should be a warning for every stealth fighter aspirant.
Honestly, JF-17 is the best way pakistan can develop a solid footing on Aircraft manufacturing. Learn the tricks of the trade, build up indigenous capabilities and ensure that local talent is grown. The last part - local talent ( Human Resource) - is what Pakistan lacks the most. Nothing can be done without Human resource. Look at your Neighbor Iran. See the number of patents and research papers that Iran is producing ( even after the Islamic Revolution and Sanctions!). Pakistan won't accomplish anything without figuring out this.
I wanted to say this for long ...but Project Azm is not going to be a reality. I know you do realize that. But I don't think Pakistan has the financial wherewithal to hitch a ride on Chinese/ Turkish stealth ventures either. I sometimes do check up Defense.pk and am amazed by the optimism by the Pakistanis regarding Project Azm.
That is pakistan's call. While I have the same concerns as you regarding Turkish soft spot for Uyghur issues, I think that Turkey, Pakistan and China are pragmatic enough to give these issues the relevance they demand - especially in the light of current geopolitics and evolving security situation. Turkey has to be accommodated. If the French and British could seek peace after what happened to the French navy at Mers-al-Kebir, then Turkey and China can.
Pakistan will seek to integrate foreign systems so as to not put "all eggs in one basket".
The JF-17 Block 2/3 seems to have the option to handle Turkish Targeting pods (Aselsan). Aselsan also offered ECM suits to JF-17. I think it is pakistan's decision. Turkish ECM suits might also be valued due to its own threat library. Maybe Turkey has got some tricks up against IN Rafales ?
What ECM suit does JF-17 Block 3 carry actually ?
To be perfectly blunt, no. It's Pakistan's call when it's Pakistan's money. When China puts up the bulk of the development work (as it did for the JF-17 and will do much more so for Azm) and offers sweetheart financing (as it must if Pakistan is to afford a 5th gen), then China gets a say, to say the least. Remember the golden rule: he who has the gold makes the rules.
If it were Ataturk's Turkey I would agree with you. Erdogan's Turkey? No.
Neither France nor Britain were run by religious fanatics. Such a deal was possible between them; that's far from clear in the case of China and Turkey.
Again I feel the need to be blunt. Given Pakistan's chronic financial and geopolitical difficulties, it simply doesn't have the luxury to go shopping around as it pleases with China's money. If it wants to do that, it can do it with its own money.