JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

S

stannislas

Junior Member
Registered Member
plawolf said:
There was an interview with one of the developers where it was explicitly asked if there were official sources for JF17 specs, and there was deathly silence, which everyone took as an affirmative.
Click to expand...
They actually posted pictures of them in the jf-17 simulators in CAC at Chengdu just a couple of months ago, they said they spend a lot of time confirming the flight model and control characteristics with the simulator and it's probably the most accurate FBW system in the DCS.

in terms of the SD-10, as a bigger missile, it flies faster than the AMRAAM, thus it's more powerful in the non-escape zone, but you got an earlier warning when it comes towards you
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Insignius said:
Very evil: Using LD-10 to A2A


Basically, the enemy plane "wont see it coming".

I wonder how useful passive radar homing is for actual air-to-air engagements.
Click to expand...

Well it’s an interesting design feature, but it has been known for some time.

In terms of real world utility, I think it will depend hugely on opfor.

If the enemy has ARHAAMs, they would have to be doing something massively wrong to be locking onto you long enough for a passive guided PL12 to home in on them.

As your video showed, in the initial merge, both hostiles stopped tracking as soon as they got their Fox 3s off, and started doing evasives in expectation of return fire, so both shots missed.

He only scored a kill later because of the unusually close range of the follow up shot, and the SD10’s beastly speed.

Passive self defence mode would be a game changer against enemies with SARAAM, where the launch aircraft needs to keep you painted until impact.

But SARAAMs would be at such a massive disadvantage against ARHAAMs, it’s unlikely this new self defence mode would make much of a meaningful difference.

What would be very interesting is if the self defence mode also has a home-on-jam capability. But there have been no reports of the PL12 having such a capacity.
 
I

Insignius

Junior Member
I believe the R-77 seeker on which the initial PL-12 was based on had HoJ features, which became standard to all Fox 3 missiles around the world.

Problem with HoJ is that you are still likely to miss, since jamming prevents you from knowing the range and altitude of the enemy in the first place. So any shots against a jamming target is likely to be out of range anyway, while any shot at a jamming target within range makes jamming moot, since you have already burned through the jamming to get the range in the first place.

A real game-changer would be an ultra-sensitive passive guided missile which could lock on discrete datalink emissions of enemy planes. I think there are some reports that the PL-XX VLRAAM does feature something like that in tandem with its active and ImIR seekers.
 
Brumby

Brumby

Major
Insignius said:
I believe the R-77 seeker on which the initial PL-12 was based on had HoJ features, which became standard to all Fox 3 missiles around the world.
Click to expand...
An effective counter against HOJ is towed decoy. Basically all modern Western aircraft have them. Interesting contract is Russians and Chinese aircraft don't have them.

Insignius said:
Problem with HoJ is that you are still likely to miss, since jamming prevents you from knowing the range and altitude of the enemy in the first place. So any shots against a jamming target is likely to be out of range anyway, while any shot at a jamming target within range makes jamming moot, since you have already burned through the jamming to get the range in the first place.
Click to expand...
Jamming and burn through is a function of J/S and is an independent conversation from that of the radar detection range, They do share a common denominator though in that having a RCS advantage is a positive component in both equations.

Insignius said:
A real game-changer would be an ultra-sensitive passive guided missile which could lock on discrete datalink emissions of enemy planes. I think there are some reports that the PL-XX VLRAAM does feature something like that in tandem with its active and ImIR seekers.
Click to expand...

Long range passive targeting is dependent on the sensor and not the missile. There are principally two ways that it can currently be conducted by way of example. First is using a passive sensor like IRST. IRST21 pod on board the F-18 and Talon Hate pod with the F-15 can passively target in excess of 100 kms. They however need range information which will still need a LPD burst or two from its AESA radar to complete the targeting solution. It is this reason why I alluded earlier regarding the JF-17 and ECM. With the advent of AESA, legacy ECMs in my view are deficient with lower probability of intercept (POI) due to sensitivity issues and against complexity of waveforms as common with AESA radars. JF-17 need to upgrade its ECM suite which I believe is in the works with Block 3. It will need digital wideband channelized receivers for it to take on modern platforms with AESA radars. On this matter, the other deficiency with the JF-17 that in my view needs an upgrade is to move from a UV based MWS to at least IR based. Being passively targeted but with only a UV based MWS that is unable to pick up a missile launch against it is highly problematic.

The other long range passive targeting is by way of highly capable and sensitive receivers. Given that this capability is currently only available in the F-35 and F-22, it is OT.
 
Schwerter_

Schwerter_

Junior Member
Registered Member
asif iqbal said:
Great movie

no doubt JF17 can take the F18 and F15 both at the same time
Click to expand...

I know this is off topic, but I remember that Pakistan made an air combat movie this year (Sherdil if I remember correctly)? Is there a link to download or watch online? Unfortunately we didn't get it in China, and a lot of military fans (me included) are really disappointed, especially after watching the trailer =(
 
asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Scchwerter_ said:
I know this is off topic, but I remember that Pakistan made an air combat movie this year (Sherdil if I remember correctly)? Is there a link to download or watch online? Unfortunately we didn't get it in China, and a lot of military fans (me included) are really disappointed, especially after watching the trailer =(
Click to expand...

Ask over on PDF no doubt someone will post a link for it
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top