JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[plawolf]

Isn’t Turkey getting the F35?

Even China is thinking long and hard about pursuing two stealth fighter projects, so it is dubious that Turkey has the financial muscle to go for a second stealth project before we even consider technical capabilities.

If Pakistan wants a 5th gen, the best, and probably only viable option would be a JV with China.

A China-Pakistan-Turkey partnership would be on the cards, but it would be a bit of a long shot unless there is a massive deterioration in Turkish-Nato relations.

China might be willing to share the J31 with Pakistan even if the PLAAF and/or PLAN also pick it up, but to have it operated by a NATO member would be a very different prospect.

I would imagine NATO would be similarly unenthusiastic about the prospect of a Chinese co-developed stealth fighter being integrated into NATO C&C networks.

 

[asif iqbal]

Beautiful

 

[ougoah]

Isn’t Turkey getting the F35?

Even China is thinking long and hard about pursuing two stealth fighter projects, so it is dubious that Turkey has the financial muscle to go for a second stealth project before we even consider technical capabilities.

If Pakistan wants a 5th gen, the best, and probably only viable option would be a JV with China.

A China-Pakistan-Turkey partnership would be on the cards, but it would be a bit of a long shot unless there is a massive deterioration in Turkish-Nato relations.

China might be willing to share the J31 with Pakistan even if the PLAAF and/or PLAN also pick it up, but to have it operated by a NATO member would be a very different prospect.

I would imagine NATO would be similarly unenthusiastic about the prospect of a Chinese co-developed stealth fighter being integrated into NATO C&C networks.

Turkey is most likely going to go ahead with their domestic 5th gen. They have partnered with BAe and GE for critical subsystems. Rolls Royce was involved with the project as well, offering something more capable than the EJ200 allegedly but the Turks have apparently decided on the F414 for initial batches. Truth is by the time they get this all up and running, the F-35's capabilities will be far in advance of it and it simply won't justify the costs. The only upside to all the struggle would be developing a domestic industry. It probably also partly started as a hedge against the US withholding F-35 from Turkey or using it as a political tool to push Turkish policy.

 

[Dizasta1]

Looking awesome!! JF-17 Thunder to get AESA radars!

 

[Dizasta1]

Isn’t Turkey getting the F35?

Even China is thinking long and hard about pursuing two stealth fighter projects, so it is dubious that Turkey has the financial muscle to go for a second stealth project before we even consider technical capabilities.

If Pakistan wants a 5th gen, the best, and probably only viable option would be a JV with China.

A China-Pakistan-Turkey partnership would be on the cards, but it would be a bit of a long shot unless there is a massive deterioration in Turkish-Nato relations.

China might be willing to share the J31 with Pakistan even if the PLAAF and/or PLAN also pick it up, but to have it operated by a NATO member would be a very different prospect.

I would imagine NATO would be similarly unenthusiastic about the prospect of a Chinese co-developed stealth fighter being integrated into NATO C&C networks.

Pakistan and China would need to work out the viability of a joint venture for Gen-5 stealth aircraft. It's sensible for Pakistan to move forward with China on a join venture. Historically there has been successful partnerships in this respect. The most crucial aspect for both countries would be; firstly for China to have a engines for this Gen-5 aircraft. Without which, pursuit of a such a program would be a non-starter. Having said that, it isn't necessary that the engines be ready prior to the aircraft commences testing.

Secondly, Pakistan would be required to up its game, when it comes to having established infrastructure, necessary to build Gen-5 fighters. With Thunder's manufacturing in full swing. We could hope to see Pakistan reach near 100% manufacturing capability for the JF-17 Thunders. This would prove invaluable for Pakistan when they take on a much more complexed and advance fighter jet production.

The J-31s/FC-31s are more than likely, the way forward for Pakistan Air Force. And I hope that both China and Pakistan come together, to achieve even greater success than they have with Thunders.

As for Turkey, yeah I don't see that happening at all, at all, at all.

 

[ougoah]

TFX has better or same change of happening as KFX project. Both are more promising than AMCA. AMCA will happen but it'll be delivered in a very long time. Su-57 will depend on how much Russia wants to spend on it. They want to claim it will eat American style 5th gens (like J-20) for breakfast but every non Russian fanboy seriously doubts that so that just leaves TFX as the only one with genuine potential. Europe's projects are pure renderings at the moment so at least a decade away as well. TFX may be better than KFX in that it will have internal bays where the KFX has abandoned that because it is just too damn hard to build seriously large voids into a structural frame capable of handling g forces to move with the best of the 4th and 5th gens. Work on TFX subsystems have begun and general layout and engines have pretty much been selected. That's far ahead of Tempest and France's NGF. I think Europe will just skip their own 5th gen and build 6th gens to cover F-35's capability gaps.

TFX is going with a pair of F414s which will mean they want to build a medium sized fighter. The real thing threatening that project is Turkey's own resolve. They will have many F-35s and upgraded ones too by the time TFX is ready. The Turkish 5th gens will probably aim for pure air superiority so as to not overlap too much with their F-35s. All of this will take over a decade so Pakistan won't be getting a JV 5th gen with Turkey well after one with China. We'll find out what the future holds for FC-31 in the coming years. SAC may well have been doing a lot of work on FC-31 along with AVIC in the last few years after V2. Maybe it is far more than just a shell today. Subsystems can easily be filled that can match the capabilities of J-20 if not exceed them (since it will be a more modern plane). They are all AVIC, domestic and export grade differences will be the real clincher. Engines is the biggest bottleneck. PLAAF and PLANAF aren't even slightly interested unless WS-19 is both promising and near completion so they can prove what a J-31 can offer.

 

[Chaminuka]

LKF601E AESA radar for the JF-17... This is apparently the world's first air-cooled AESA radar. The bad English on the information placard says it's "equipped with FC-1". FC-1 is of course another name for JF-17. The Chinese on the placard could mean the radar is 1)designed for JF-17, or 2)already equipped on JF-17, or 3)destined/chosen for JF-17.

Model number suggest this is Revision 2. Made 2 years ago.

 

[Dizasta1]

As I said before, Turkey would not be a match for China, for any sort of joint venture. For starters, Turkey is too entrenched in NATO for it to be able to claw out to form its own policy, or have joint ventures with countries which are direct adversaries of the alliance. For Turkey to form its own path, is near impossible, as 99% of its military is completely Western and if NATO wants to reign in Turkey, it could hurt Turkey anywhere and at anytime.

Pakistan also must be cautious when it comes to Turkey. It isn't feasible at all for Pakistan to go into any joint venture with the Turks, unless of course Turkey is goes on a full tilt and extracts itself out of NATO, completely. Even then, Pakistan needs to mindful of how deep the military to military relations run with Israel. The latter has been intricately involved in various projects of Turkey like the Phantom modernization, defensive suites for tanks, missile technology assistance and so on. Israel is a regular participant in Turkey's biennial "Anatolian Eagle" air war games. So it would be wise to keep them at arms length.

Best options for Turkey, if it wishes to remain in NATO, is to perhaps team up with other Pro-West countries which have an active Gen-5 program or at least have declared that they are to commence with such a program. Japan "or" South Korea would be a good option. Unfortunately it cannot be both Japan and South Korea come together with Turkey, for a Gen-5 fighter program. Wounds still run deep, from WW2, for South Korea to consider such a venture. Then again, you never know, positive can come out of negative experiences.

 

[Pampa]

JF-17B seems to have a bigger strut between seats.
At least in the scale model seen in Zhuhai 2018 .

Regards

 

[taxiya]

Turkey is most likely going to go ahead with their domestic 5th gen. They have partnered with BAe and GE for critical subsystems. Rolls Royce was involved with the project as well, offering something more capable than the EJ200 allegedly but the Turks have apparently decided on the F414 for initial batches. Truth is by the time they get this all up and running, the F-35's capabilities will be far in advance of it and it simply won't justify the costs. The only upside to all the struggle would be developing a domestic industry. It probably also partly started as a hedge against the US withholding F-35 from Turkey or using it as a political tool to push Turkish policy.

Remind me of Mitsubishi ATD-X.