JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[asif iqbal]

Guys please this is getting embarrassing with all this “free stuff “ talk and absolutely no need for it

Mods step in

 

[Figaro]

Hi,

The first part of your statement is correct---.

The second part about the missile thingy---it does not work that way.

As much as anyone wants to believe in---let them---. The fact is---if Pakistan wants it---it will get it and that also from chinese funds---.

So---people don't bring the money issue over here---. If you do---you people are clueless as to what is happening in the arena and what concerns china and pakistan the most---.

And stop this BS about " there is no free lunch "---. Yes there is free lunch for Pakistan from China---anytime it wants it.

Do not take China for granted. What China gives it can also take away. Pakistan knows this all too well ... hence it spends billions of dollars on Chinese arms (which are quite expensive for a economy like that of Pakistan’s). If Pakistan wants to become a freeloader, you can bet relations with China will chill considerably.

It may seem unimportant given we're all a bunch of nobodies in the grand scheme of things, but the attitude some Pakistani people have regarding China is one of extreme arrogance and entitlement. You are all welcome to your own beliefs but saying things like Pakistan can get whatever it wants from China and China cannot do anything about it implies that Pakistan is the one holding all the cards and holding China hostage to its demands. This is simply not true. Once there is enough evidence for this, these people who belief these things like gospel will turn on China. Good riddance to bad rubbish. We need to stop believing in "iron friendships" and all that nonsense. Some Chinese people are as guilty of buying into this thinking and it really isn't conducive to everyone eventually understanding each other and getting on with life in peace. The less we put faith into "iron friendships" and more effort we put into mutual respect and understanding, the sooner the region will find peace and have a chance at prosperity. Saying things like if Pakistan wants it, Pakistan will get it, only makes you sound like a petulant child with zero understanding of how the world works.

Pakistan's close relationship with China was generally derived from a common source of concern in the 20th century independent India that annexed a few border regions. Pakistan being China's hedge against a strong and belligerent India and China being Pakistan life insurance policy. Of course this is no longer necessary as all three can defend themselves well enough today. It pays to maintain good relations with everyone, particularly your neighbours. Just because a good relationship exists, does not mean both will always look kindly on each other in every instance. It certainly doesn't mean whatever belongs to China automatically belongs to Pakistan. That's insane.

Even though what Mastan says is nonsense, that does not take away from the Sino-Pak friendship. The fact is this relationship is more of an alliance than a marriage of convenience (I.e. China and Russia). Just compare China’s relationship with Pakistan vs other countries such as Russia, India, or the Philippines. The “Iron Friendship” both counties espouse are win-win

 

[Zahid]

@Deino

Could you please clean up this thread. It is quite embarrassing what some Pakistanis are typing up here about free lunches and what not. Most such posts are OT and needless repetition of issues discussed to death already.

Thanks.

 

[Saad Farooq]

Decent performing AESA and IRST will enhance the JF-17 so much they are basically must haves at this point. If they can be manufactured and delivered affordably enough. That is the challenge. Understanding of the JF-17 airframe and how composite materials could be applied to this frame would have been basically the same as from day 1 of operations. If they wished to add these qualities they could have back then. Sure everyone's airforces are improving in technology and numbers at different rates so improving the JF-17 by adding composites to make it lighter etc could be justified now but I think structural changes will be minimal (not talking twin seat) since engine remains same. Electronics and sensors updates give more ability and most could be made to fit and weigh similarly to the systems they replace. Rumours about new KLJ7A being some ESA radar. At the moment, there is less need for an IRST seeing as most of IAF's fleet are big radar targets and AESA could offer LPI that makes it less "active" as the radar it replaces. Still a JF-17 BLK3 with capable AESA even at the smaller size and an IRST will make it as electronically capable as any world class light weight fighter. The only factors that will determine effectiveness beyond the plane itself would be the ordinance it carries, supporting network, and pilot ability. Gripen NG is direct competitor and at a fraction of its cost, the JF-17 BLK3 should embarrass the Swedish machine. Maybe the Gripen will have better communications tech and datalinking but airforces will play to their strengths.

Since PAF has already announced a design freeze on Blk III, so it seems all the important decisions are already taken.

JF 17B the twin seat shows significant design changes and increase in overall size. This may indicate that structurally JF 17B may be the template of Blk III. If that is the case, elongated nose cone may indicate an AESA has been finalized. Similarly Blk III single seat aircraft may have increased fuel / stores capacity because of weight reduction achieved and airframe enlargement.

This may open up possibility for a dedicated chin hard point for targeting pod.

 

[ougoah]

I have doubts we'll see any enlargement of the airframe. Applying lighter materials here and there does not necessarily increase fuel and weapon loads. It only improves the thrust to weight ration if everything else stays the same. Composites don't always mean greater load carrying capacity over previous materials. The main consideration for all the above is really just engine output. If they install a more powerful engine, then they can enlarge the frame and increase the fuel tank and total combat load. Blk 3 will probably look identical on the outside but will come with updated electronics and sensors. Until WS-19 is ready, no major structural changes will be suitable. More composites on the single seat variety is possible but it won't really do that much to increase storage.

 

[Aliusman]

On a side note all Block 1 aircrafts are now upgraded to block 2 standard, so Pakistan has 100+ Block 2 Jf-17 in 5 squadrons excluding the squadron at CCS. Not bad in 11 years since first two JF-17 came in March 2007.

 

[Dizasta1]

Looking at the previous three pages on this thread, I am a bit surprised with some of the posts.

First things first, China and Pakistan aren't just allies and friends, the relations run deeper than that. Regardless of the world might think or say, in the end, it's mere speculation on their part.

Also, what China wants to sell, or what it doesn't, is entirely dependent on China itself. Friend or Foe, it's China's interests and security first. And likewise for Pakistan.

And no one in Pakistan is under any illusion as to what weapons it wants and what our defence budget allows us to procure. Which is why, Pakistan looks for the best value for money, within it's strategic planning and requirements.

I think this has eluded some posters on this thread. You all are fine contributors to SDF and we all have learnt a great deal from very knowledgeable members here. Least we forget, that all of us share the same enthusiasm for China and it's phenomenal growth.

J-10 is a remarkable aircraft, an engineering marvel of China. No one can or will ever take that away from them. Pakistan's interest in the J-10 have been evident for quite sometime. And Pakistan has to weigh in, carefully, which of its requirements will be fulfilled within the framework of Pakistan Air Force's "Air War Doctrine."

J-16 is an aircraft in its own class. Whether Pakistan has shown interest in the aircraft or whether China will allow the sale of the aircraft, is not up for speculation. The two countries have very strong ties, and both countries have carefully balanced the strategic requirements of each other, vis-a-vis the region they are located in.

Under no circumstances does either of the two countries disclose what their dealings are unless the need to do so, is present.

You'd have to forgive my fellow countrymen. But you can't blame them for their enthusiasm.

SDF keep on charging.

China-Pakistan dosti, Zindabad.

 

[Ali Qizilbash]

Hi,

The first part of your statement is correct---.

The second part about the missile thingy---it does not work that way.

As much as anyone wants to believe in---let them---. The fact is---if Pakistan wants it---it will get it and that also from chinese funds---.

So---people don't bring the money issue over here---. If you do---you people are clueless as to what is happening in the arena and what concerns china and pakistan the most---.

And stop this BS about " there is no free lunch "---. Yes there is free lunch for Pakistan from China---anytime it wants it.

As usual another BS post by one and only MastanKhan. I wish there could be an UNLIKE button too.

 

[Deino]

Guys .... STOP this and come back to the topic.

By the way it seems as if this was not posted here?!

Deino

 

[MastanKhan]

Courtesy Reichsmarschall @ PDF forum