JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
- Thread starter johnqh
- Start date
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
What’s the issue I have not been following
Anyway I hope I can see a 18-2xx serial soon
Long over due
Anyway I hope I can see a 18-2xx serial soon
Long over due
MastanKhan
Junior Member
Hi,
The first part of your statement is correct---.
The second part about the missile thingy---it does not work that way.
As much as anyone wants to believe in---let them---. The fact is---if Pakistan wants it---it will get it and that also from chinese funds---.
So---people don't bring the money issue over here---. If you do---you people are clueless as to what is happening in the arena and what concerns china and pakistan the most---.
And stop this BS about " there is no free lunch "---. Yes there is free lunch for Pakistan from China---anytime it wants it.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
No there is no free lunch in this world all those fund that goes into CPEC is a LOAN and must be paid. When Pakistan cannot paid it back then it has to be repossessed just like any default loan
I am at loss as to why Pakistan is entitled to free lunch who give them the right God ?
And why should the hard earned money give freely to Pakistan
As far as I know all those military assistance MUST BE PAID back!
China gives all those loan to prevent Pakistan from becoming a failed state and prevent Indian domination in South Asia subcontinent
But a good friend should never take advantage of other people generosity If you failed to understand that then you don't know China and Chinese
It is one of those thing that is drilled in our head "Never take advantage of other people sweat when you owe money paid it back!"
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It may seem unimportant given we're all a bunch of nobodies in the grand scheme of things, but the attitude some Pakistani people have regarding China is one of extreme arrogance and entitlement. You are all welcome to your own beliefs but saying things like Pakistan can get whatever it wants from China and China cannot do anything about it implies that Pakistan is the one holding all the cards and holding China hostage to its demands. This is simply not true. Once there is enough evidence for this, these people who belief these things like gospel will turn on China. Good riddance to bad rubbish. We need to stop believing in "iron friendships" and all that nonsense. Some Chinese people are as guilty of buying into this thinking and it really isn't conducive to everyone eventually understanding each other and getting on with life in peace. The less we put faith into "iron friendships" and more effort we put into mutual respect and understanding, the sooner the region will find peace and have a chance at prosperity. Saying things like if Pakistan wants it, Pakistan will get it, only makes you sound like a petulant child with zero understanding of how the world works.
Pakistan's close relationship with China was generally derived from a common source of concern in the 20th century independent India that annexed a few border regions. Pakistan being China's hedge against a strong and belligerent India and China being Pakistan life insurance policy. Of course this is no longer necessary as all three can defend themselves well enough today. It pays to maintain good relations with everyone, particularly your neighbours. Just because a good relationship exists, does not mean both will always look kindly on each other in every instance. It certainly doesn't mean whatever belongs to China automatically belongs to Pakistan. That's insane.
Pakistan's close relationship with China was generally derived from a common source of concern in the 20th century independent India that annexed a few border regions. Pakistan being China's hedge against a strong and belligerent India and China being Pakistan life insurance policy. Of course this is no longer necessary as all three can defend themselves well enough today. It pays to maintain good relations with everyone, particularly your neighbours. Just because a good relationship exists, does not mean both will always look kindly on each other in every instance. It certainly doesn't mean whatever belongs to China automatically belongs to Pakistan. That's insane.
Is it kids fighting over non essential issues forum or JF 17 discussion board.
Please Aliph and Mastan get over the rhetoric. Let's talk facts here.
How about seeing if the Blk III will have additional stores carrying capacity. Since complete FBW + Composites will decrease the overall weight, it can translate into addl load carrying capacity. Perhaps in the form of an additional chin hard point for targeting pod.
Similarly any HOBS missile and HMS integration in sight? Any word on performance of KLJ 7A? IRST?
Please Aliph and Mastan get over the rhetoric. Let's talk facts here.
How about seeing if the Blk III will have additional stores carrying capacity. Since complete FBW + Composites will decrease the overall weight, it can translate into addl load carrying capacity. Perhaps in the form of an additional chin hard point for targeting pod.
Similarly any HOBS missile and HMS integration in sight? Any word on performance of KLJ 7A? IRST?
Decent performing AESA and IRST will enhance the JF-17 so much they are basically must haves at this point. If they can be manufactured and delivered affordably enough. That is the challenge. Understanding of the JF-17 airframe and how composite materials could be applied to this frame would have been basically the same as from day 1 of operations. If they wished to add these qualities they could have back then. Sure everyone's airforces are improving in technology and numbers at different rates so improving the JF-17 by adding composites to make it lighter etc could be justified now but I think structural changes will be minimal (not talking twin seat) since engine remains same. Electronics and sensors updates give more ability and most could be made to fit and weigh similarly to the systems they replace. Rumours about new KLJ7A being some ESA radar. At the moment, there is less need for an IRST seeing as most of IAF's fleet are big radar targets and AESA could offer LPI that makes it less "active" as the radar it replaces. Still a JF-17 BLK3 with capable AESA even at the smaller size and an IRST will make it as electronically capable as any world class light weight fighter. The only factors that will determine effectiveness beyond the plane itself would be the ordinance it carries, supporting network, and pilot ability. Gripen NG is direct competitor and at a fraction of its cost, the JF-17 BLK3 should embarrass the Swedish machine. Maybe the Gripen will have better communications tech and datalinking but airforces will play to their strengths.
D
Deleted member 13312
Guest
Maybe Pakistan will be more satisfied to get a PESA first, then an AESA later. IRST is of course a basic requirement as it offers the JF-17 to detect enemy fighters without giving away their position via active radar pinging. An increased networking capability should also be on the JF-17's.
As for what route the JF-17 BLK 3 would take, a HMS and HOBS missile will greatly help the PAF leverage the alleged agility of the JF-17., it is also one of the claimed upgrades slated for BLK 3. A stronger engine can finally push the JF-17 into the F-16 and J-10 class range and significantly increase it's payload and range, after all dimensions wise the JF-17 is quite similar to the F-16.
And of course, BLK 3 will most likely showcase the continued expending use of composite materials for the JF-17 air frame which is already becoming something of a mantra for the JF-17. The Gripen NG may be more expensive then the JF-17, but SAAB can leverage on its history of successful fighters+better avionics to justify it whereas Pakistan is starting from scratch with the JF-17.
As for what route the JF-17 BLK 3 would take, a HMS and HOBS missile will greatly help the PAF leverage the alleged agility of the JF-17., it is also one of the claimed upgrades slated for BLK 3. A stronger engine can finally push the JF-17 into the F-16 and J-10 class range and significantly increase it's payload and range, after all dimensions wise the JF-17 is quite similar to the F-16.
And of course, BLK 3 will most likely showcase the continued expending use of composite materials for the JF-17 air frame which is already becoming something of a mantra for the JF-17. The Gripen NG may be more expensive then the JF-17, but SAAB can leverage on its history of successful fighters+better avionics to justify it whereas Pakistan is starting from scratch with the JF-17.
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We'll have to wait for the WS19s for major improvements. WS13s are essentially RD93s. Whether the latter group can power electronics upgrades is uncertain. Adding weight by adding features will reduce performance and range. Maybe these incremental upgrades are really only happening after or with engine upgrade.
timepass
Brigadier
Dizasta posted this article in Pakistan Military thread, so I thought it should be shared in this very forum too ..... so read & enjoy.... 
Thunder Genesis
In the late 1990s Pakistan started the software development for JF-17 Thunder.
The software language everyone else uses in military jet programming, is ADA. However, Pakistan Air Force came to a unique decision in the software development of the aircraft.
Instead of using ADA programming language they used C++ because there were literally tens of thousands of young proficient and highly capable programmers of C language in Pakistan.
The entire Software/Firmaware of JF-17 Thunder was written by young Pakistani software programmers in various private industry software-houses under supervision of Pakistan Air Force, and as per the perimeters given to them by Pakistan Air Force.
At the time, when this decision was put into being implemented, nobody else used C language on a military jet and the world ridiculed and laughed at Pakistan Air Force their choice of computer language, to encode the Thunder's combat systems.
But today, the aircraft touted as the world's most advanced fighter jet, the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning ll (JSF), actually uses C language as its main programming language.
Some would claim this as a Pakistani concept, which is now being used by the Americans. The reasoning is simple, because C language is very versatile, unlike ADA which is difficult to program and modify.
This is what Pakistan Air Force realized in the late 1990s. Which is why any weapon can be integrated on to the JF-17 Thunder. Which in turn expands the weapons options for Pakistan Air Force. Be they MAR-1, the Brazilian anti-radiation missiles, or C-802A anti-ship missiles. All are integrated on the JF-17 Thunder. Similarly, new avionics will also be incorporated on the Thunder with ease.
Today, the Americans use C language on the F-35 Lightning lls for the same reason. In comparison an F-22 Raptor is programmed in ADA language and incorporating new weapons or avionics is that much more difficult and expensive.
There is an old saying my dad always taught me, it goes as ... "Sense (common sense) came before book!"