JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Zahid]

I am skeptical about an Indonesian order. Indonesia is a great & populous nation composed of many islands of various sizes. How can a relatively short-legged fighter be the "best" for Indonesian airforce? Might they not want long legs and reliability of a twin engined fighter when much of Indonesia's geographical area is blue sea? JF-17 might have a niche role, but I doubt that it is a perfect fit for Indonesia.

Also, talking of an Indonesian order for x number of aircraft is very premature.

 

[MastanKhan]

So when Chinese rumours turn up you are jumping up and down

When same thing happens to JF17 you ask for proof? So which one is it ? Sorry but you cannot have it both ways

Stay calm and just wait people said same thing about Block 3 they are always proved wrong

Hi,

People don't understand that Kamra is still a military complex---So---secrecy is still a part of the culture.

It is not a corporation where shareholders are waiting for the stocks to go up---.

As it took years to confirm the Nigerian and Myanmar deals---a similar situation will take place over here as well.

There have been many an instance in the past---where the air force / navy / army was ready to sign a deal for a certain weapons system---and at the last moment it got cancelled either due to instability of the prime minister's office and other local political factors.

 

[ougoah]

How does JF-17 compare on paper to Gripen? They are miles apart in price but everything else seems to be quite close. In fact with an AESA radar, JF-17 will get the better radar first. Who knows when Gripen will receive AESA and IRST in the E/F variant. Like other European projects, hopelessly delayed and out of budget. What was meant to be a cheap fighter is now close to $100M for export when E/F comes out. I remember many many years ago, Eurofighter consortium was bragging about new radars and engines and TVC for Typhoon. Nearly a decade later and not even prototypes and tests have been done (only a wealthy arab nation bought a version with unproven Captor E AESA radar last year). This is why Rafale is 100% the better fighter than Typhoon. Definitely better for French Airforce and Navy. Seems like Gripen is going down the Typhoon path. Great marketing but actually selling garbage with the only hype being "oh it has great info sharing and sensor fusion" as if that stuff is hard and other fighters don't ALL have very competent data sharing and sensor fusion. Software is the easy part and I don't recall Europeans being terribly strong at this stuff. Ericsson isn't anything special these days.

So if JF-17 block 3 comes out in next few years with AESA, refuel probe, upgraded sensors and avionics, would JF-17 be a better light weight fighter than Gripen for less than a third the price?

 

[kurutoga]

So if JF-17 block 3 comes out in next few years with AESA, refuel probe, upgraded sensors and avionics, would JF-17 be a better light weight fighter than Gripen for less than a third the price?

Block 3 will be low priced, but it may not be too cheap. I remembered they said the new AESA radar, while performing much better, is more expensive than the Italian alternative. However, I think Block 3 has a great future. For a lot of countries it is their last chance to get a nice new single-engine fighter jet on the cheap. (

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other quotes on J10C is 50+ mil USD) Some of these potential buyers will realize it once they obtain a quote on F-35.

 

[SinoSoldier]

How does JF-17 compare on paper to Gripen? They are miles apart in price but everything else seems to be quite close. In fact with an AESA radar, JF-17 will get the better radar first. Who knows when Gripen will receive AESA and IRST in the E/F variant. Like other European projects, hopelessly delayed and out of budget. What was meant to be a cheap fighter is now close to $100M for export when E/F comes out. I remember many many years ago, Eurofighter consortium was bragging about new radars and engines and TVC for Typhoon. Nearly a decade later and not even prototypes and tests have been done (only a wealthy arab nation bought a version with unproven Captor E AESA radar last year). This is why Rafale is 100% the better fighter than Typhoon. Definitely better for French Airforce and Navy. Seems like Gripen is going down the Typhoon path. Great marketing but actually selling garbage with the only hype being "oh it has great info sharing and sensor fusion" as if that stuff is hard and other fighters don't ALL have very competent data sharing and sensor fusion. Software is the easy part and I don't recall Europeans being terribly strong at this stuff. Ericsson isn't anything special these days.

So if JF-17 block 3 comes out in next few years with AESA, refuel probe, upgraded sensors and avionics, would JF-17 be a better light weight fighter than Gripen for less than a third the price?

How are you so sure that the Block III would only be "a third" of the price?

 

[ougoah]

How are you so sure that the Block III would only be "a third" of the price?

Admittedly this is purely a guess and I should have said about a third of the price rather than less than a third, but it's the likely outcome since current Gripen C is about $60M and probably more for export purchase. This Gripen does not have AESA, IRST, or refuel probe. So when it does come out with it, assuming it even does and the platform isn't totally obsolete, the price would be even greater than an independently developed AESA from China. Thus the export price may be around $100M by then. JF-17 should be no more than $35M even with an AESA. We know China's got scale in production and many of the higher end projects will lead to the technology for manufacturing components to be cheaper.

In any case, a third the price or not (I shouldn't have said this), JF-17 block 3 will come out years before Gripen E/F and will be significantly less expensive to purchase and won't come with American parts that are subject to sanctions.

 

[ougoah]

As an export competitor to the lightest weight class of multirole fighters, JF-17 is very compelling. Unfortunately there is a lot of politics involved and purchases are usually entirely political before considering the actual hardware. I just don't understand the hype for Gripen. The only publicly disclosed advantage it has is its ability to land and take off on highways. Of course we're not going to consider the better weapons the Gripen will have access to.

 

[asif iqbal]

Nigeria has allocated 2 install payments for JF17 Block II

$36 million in 2017 and $14 million in 2016

I am not sure if they will make another payment but that’s $50 million for 3 x JF17

That puts the value at approx $17 a pop

Block I was $700 million for 50 units or $14 million a pop

No question that Block III is way more advanced and more expensive but I would seriously doubt its “double” the price

So we can put price tag at $25-30 million

That is one hell of a price tag for a ASEA equipped fighter

 

[plawolf]

How does JF-17 compare on paper to Gripen? They are miles apart in price but everything else seems to be quite close. In fact with an AESA radar, JF-17 will get the better radar first. Who knows when Gripen will receive AESA and IRST in the E/F variant. Like other European projects, hopelessly delayed and out of budget. What was meant to be a cheap fighter is now close to $100M for export when E/F comes out. I remember many many years ago, Eurofighter consortium was bragging about new radars and engines and TVC for Typhoon. Nearly a decade later and not even prototypes and tests have been done (only a wealthy arab nation bought a version with unproven Captor E AESA radar last year). This is why Rafale is 100% the better fighter than Typhoon. Definitely better for French Airforce and Navy. Seems like Gripen is going down the Typhoon path. Great marketing but actually selling garbage with the only hype being "oh it has great info sharing and sensor fusion" as if that stuff is hard and other fighters don't ALL have very competent data sharing and sensor fusion. Software is the easy part and I don't recall Europeans being terribly strong at this stuff. Ericsson isn't anything special these days.

So if JF-17 block 3 comes out in next few years with AESA, refuel probe, upgraded sensors and avionics, would JF-17 be a better light weight fighter than Gripen for less than a third the price?

The Gripen is a delta canard, so aerodynamically speaking, it should be more agile than the JF17, which is base on 3rd gen aerodynamic.

However, with comparable AESA radars and HMS, it is questionable just how much of a difference that extra potential inherent agility advantage (especially in the transonic and supersonic regimes) would convey in the real world.

Certainly not the 3-4 times difference the price differential would demand for the Gripen to break even against the JF17.

Speaking of HMS, have there been an info on what HMS the JF17 has/might get?

Would PAC be able to integrate a foreign HMS if they so chose, or are they locked in to a Chinese offering with the selection of the radar?

 

[asif iqbal]

In a documentary a few years ago a Denel Archer helmet-mounted sight (HMS) system paired with a MBU-5/P oxygen mask which was the standard-issue oxygen mask for PAF fighter pilots was shown

However the addition of Turkish targeting pods tells me it’s going to be hard job integrating too much foreign subsystems

With Chinese precision weapons my bet is the system will also be Chinese for HMS