JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[JackyLiu]

JF-17 "too expensive" for Sri Lanka, which is eyeing alternatives from Russia now.

Online report:

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The report was citing the Sri Lanka paper "Sunday Guide", which in turn got it from an unnamed official with the SLAF:

*. End price of JF-17 has become $29m each for the SLAF, which was considered unacceptable, because certain "middleman" demanded $4m of profit for each unit

*. The "middleman" was said to be the country's former Air Chief, and other "elites" close to the Rajapaksa government

*. The SLAF is considering buying from Russia now, "because they're less expensive than Pakistan's proposal"

*. The SLAF is eyeing price range from $20m to $25m. a group if high level military officials has been sent to Russia to discuss this.

*. Difficulties have come from both Pakistan and India, and Sri Lanka's own "corrupted officials". "If we buy from Russia, then neither Pakistan or India can be unpleasant with us."

Meanwhile the report also stated that PAF once said Pakistan can make the JF-17 $15m to $20m each for export.

 

[kwaigonegin]

JF-17 "too expensive" for Sri Lanka, which is eyeing alternatives from Russia now.

Online report:

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-----------------------------------------------------------

The report was citing the Sri Lanka paper "Sunday Guide", which in turn got it from an unnamed official with the SLAF:

*. End price of JF-17 has become $29m each for the SLAF, which was considered unacceptable, because certain "middleman" demanded $4m of profit for each unit

*. The "middleman" was said to be the country's former Air Chief, and other "elites" close to the Rajapaksa government

*. The SLAF is considering buying from Russia now, "because they're less expensive than Pakistan's proposal"

*. The SLAF is eyeing price range from $20m to $25m. a group if high level military officials has been sent to Russia to discuss this.

*. Difficulties have come from both Pakistan and India, and Sri Lanka's own "corrupted officials". "If we buy from Russia, then neither Pakistan or India can be unpleasant with us."

Meanwhile the report also stated that PAF once said Pakistan can make the JF-17 $15m to $20m each for export.

Wouldn't the corrupt officials get their take regardless of which type of aircraft SLAF gets? The article is indirectly implying that only the JF17s are subjected to these 'extra fees'.

 

[Deino]

To admit ... I'm a bit sceptical about the reliability of this report, since why should a former "middleman" aka "the country's former Air Chief" be involved in these talks but not with the Russians ? ... and if CAC is so eager to get this contract, why negotiating thru this greedy "middleman" ? The Sri Lanka AF would surely be happy to safe that money and probably buy a few more JF-17s if the price is indeed "only" $15m to $20m each for export.

Deino

 

[JackyLiu]

Wouldn't the corrupt officials get their take regardless of which type of aircraft SLAF gets? The article is indirectly implying that only the JF17s are subjected to these 'extra fees'.

Yes, that's what the report was implying. The unnamed source was saying "now the middleman got mad for there would be no kickback for him"

 

[JackyLiu]

To admit ... I'm a bit sceptical about the reliability of this report, since why should a former "middleman" aka "the country's former Air Chief" be involved in these talks but not with the Russians ? ... and if CAC is so eager to get this contract, why negotiating thru this greedy "middleman" ? The Sri Lanka AF would surely be happy to safe that money and probably buy a few more JF-17s if the price is indeed "only" $15m to $20m each for export.

Deino

I won't be surprised by the outrageousness of bureaucracy. If someone says let's set up a state owned corporation and command all arms deal should go through it, I know Russia has such kind of corporation(Rosoboronexport) and perhaps China too. In this case the factory aren't supposed to talk directly to the buyers, there would always be middlemen, perhaps from both sides.

Talking about kickback, I think one shouldn't expect arms deals to be without it. This wiki page describes the corruption case over Taiwan's arms deal with France, listing in the table are persons involved who died unusual deaths during the following up investigation, there were many:

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Above is just my speculation, on the report:

*. It could be political fight, someone from the current administration was trying to tell bad stories about rivaling officials, note the resigned PM was specifically named.

*. China was supportive to the last government during the civil war of Sri Lanka, but now the war has ended and the government has changed.

*. It could be a hint for Pakistan too, to see if Pakistan can further lower the price. $25m is still at the high end of the range.

*. Or it could be just an excuse to destress after Sri Lanka's U-turn over the purchase.

Four month ago news were circulating that a deal of 8 had been sealed, but it turned out to be not true.

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End of the report said India "was greatly unpleasant, and threatened calling off the $400m loan it promised to Sri Lanka."

 

[Brumby]

JF-17 exists just for such a scenario. I would rather have Pakistan spend 700 million dollars on JF-17 than buy admittedly more capable F-16.

If USA wishes to lose influence in Pakistan then that is their choice.

The contention seems to be that the F-16 provides a very specific capability that the Paksitan military needs according to the article.

"F-16s provide precision strike capability to Pakistan's ongoing campaign against militancy," he said.

In a another article on the same subject,

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Pakistan's military says the F-16s it already owns have been integral in fighting the Pakistani Taliban and its allies in the country's tribal areas, particularly due to the aircraft's precision strike and night-flying capability.

The obvious question is does the JF-17 provide such a capability?

 

[Blitzo]

The contention seems to be that the F-16 provides a very specific capability that the Paksitan military needs according to the article.


In a another article on the same subject,

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The obvious question is does the JF-17 provide such a capability?

I've read a few articles that JF-17 may be using the WMD-7 targeting pod, however it is definitely less capable than the F-16's sniper pod... but at the same time, I've never actually seen any JF-17s carrying WMD-7 pods or any other types of targeting pods at all, which would suggest that it does not yet have precision A2G capability (at least in terms of standard direct attack PGMs -- they may have capability to carry AShMs and possibly stand off land attack missiles which are also technically precision A2G weapons).

So I think the answer is that JF-17 may not yet have the kind of precision attack capabilities that F-16s come with, but it's probably because the PAF has yet to pay for integration of those capabilities.

The way I see it, I think the F-16 was valuable to PAF not only as a precision A2G platform that they were familiar with and which they didn't have to fork out extra money for development with (not to mention being relatively affordable due to US subsidies), but the F-16s the PAF got also were very capable A2A platforms as well which were and still are superior to their present JF-17s in many ways and thus useful against India as well as in their counter insurgency efforts.
The previously affordable source of F-16s I imagine could have made any desire to integrate precision A2G capability for JF-17s less of a need. Now that the F-16s are much more expensive, I wouldn't be surprised if PAF spent that money to finally add precision targeting capability to their JF-17 fleet.

 

[Dolcevita]

The previously affordable source of F-16s I imagine could have made any desire to integrate precision A2G capability for JF-17s less of a need. Now that the F-16s are much more expensive, I wouldn't be surprised if PAF spent that money to finally add precision targeting capability to their JF-17 fleet.

The article also mentioned this *Sartaj Aziz, Pakistan's foreign policy chief, told reporters in Islamabad that while the U.S. had barred use of the funds for F-16s, the allocation of roughly $240 million could be used "for other purchases".*

Too funny if Pakistan can now fund and spent this money to finally add precision targeting capability to their JF-17 fleet.

 

[Zahid]

All these issues, including night-time precision strike capability of JF-17 has been discussed a few pages ago. What value does it add to keep bringing it up? JF-17s have been used with WMD-7 pods.

 

[Deino]

...JF-17s have been used with WMD-7 pods.

is this confirmed !?? So far I have not seen any operational pod and not even any JF-17 loaded with the pod.

Deino