JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[asif iqbal]

actually PAF operates the F16 C/D Block 52+ which is a frontline fighter for the most modern airforces in the world, Poland, Greece and Morocco are recent buyers and PAF was only the 2nd nation after Israel to use it in actual combat against Soviet intruders during 1980s, the JF17 was centered around the handling and manvouring of the fighting falcon and as a result the JF17 also has those characteristics in addition to tailored capabilitys for PAF< so in that aspect JF17 is a step above the F16

PAF cut the F16 C/D order from 71 to 18 this only means that JF17 can match the new F16s, during interview PAF pilots said that visual awareness from the cockpit exceeds F16, with advanaced BVR capabilitys, mid air refueling, AWACS integration and anti-ship roles, I think JF17 is up there with F16s and F15 to suggest its F5 is ridiculous!

 

[plawolf]

The JF17 doesn't have IFR or integrated to fire AShM yet, but I am sure it is something they are working on. Also, I think one of the reasons why the JF17 was developed so quickly was because a lot of the experience, technology and lessons learnt from the J10 was applied directly onto the JF17. CAC may well have picked up some useless lessons and pointers from their interaction and input from the PAF personnel, but it would not fit the timeline to say that the J10 benefitted from the JF17 when the J10 came first.

I am also skeptical about the claim of superior visual awareness compared to the F16 when you look at the physical layout of the planes themselves.

The F16 has a raised cockpit with a one-piece canopy, OTOH, the JF17's cockpit is more recessed and it has a 2 piece canopy, so there will be some blind spots. Could it be that the PAF pilots were talking about situational awareness instead? The JF17 has a pretty advances cockpit layout, and I have heard promising things about the MMI, so better situational awareness compared to the F16 is definitely more believable than better visual awareness.

As for the JF17 in PLAAF service, well you have to remember that CAC pretty much designed this plane around the PAF's specific requirements. That might not fit the PLAAF's needs as well. Since CAC makes both the JF17 and the J10, I can't really seem them wanting to redesign the JF17 with their own money to make it more attractive to the PLAAF just to end up selling the PLAAF JF17s instead of the more expensive (profitable) J10s.

I think the JF17 came out about 10 years too late for the PLAAF to be interested. Had this plane been available in 2001, I think the PLAAF would definitely have made a big order, but the J10A is well established now, and with the J10B coming online, the L15 making slow but steady progress and the J20 in the works, it is hard to see where the JF17 would fit in the PLAAF's force structure.

 

[asif iqbal]

there are 3 main developments that are outstanding with regards to JF17, integration to AWACS, launching of C802A and capability to mid air-fuel, which PAF has already done with IL-76 and Mirage III so i guess its not long before we see full capabilitys utilized

in addition JF17 was designed to be a multi-purpose fighter, able to fullfill the many roles required by PAF by using a single platform, I am not sure what roles PLAAF has in mind for its various fighters

yes maybe it was situational awareness rather than visual awareness they were refering to

 

[plawolf]

in addition JF17 was designed to be a multi-purpose fighter, able to fullfill the many roles required by PAF by using a single platform, I am not sure what roles PLAAF has in mind for its various fighters

I do not think there is any issue in the PLAAF about the JF17 being multi-role, but the biggest issue I see with the type is range and mission.

China is somewhat larger than Pakistan, and given the Taiwan scenario is the biggest possible flashpoint for China, all of the PLAAF's newest fighters need to have fairly long legs. This is especially evident when you look at the position of the PLAAF and PLANAF's main fighter airbases in relation to Taiwan.

For a very long time, the PLA was expecting to fight with inferior weapons, so they set up their main air bases some distance back from Taiwan to better protect against enemy air attack, with only small airfields located near Taiwan for the few scramble alert fighters.

With modern stand-off weapons, the risks of attack is still real even though the qualitative edge has shifted to the PLA's favor in recent years, and with relations improving, Beijing does not want to rock the boat by setting up large military airfields right across the strait from Taiwan. This means that PLAAF frontline fighters would ideally want a combat radius of at least 1000km. I think the JF17 would struggle with that range requirement at present, and any attempt to boost the range would be expensive and time consuming, and would probably also degrade the fighter's other performance parameters.

The fact that the JF17 uses an engine no other plane in the PLAAF uses does not help its case much either.

The JF17 is an excellent little fighter, but as I said before, it's timing is bad.

With the J10A already established, and the J10B and L15 well on their way, I can easily see the L15 taking on the training and air policing roles for low threat theaters, while the J10A drops down to low-tier tactical fighter to replace the J7. The J10B would take the J10A's current role as the medium-weight mainstay fighter to supplement the heavier J11Bs, while the J20 will eventually move in to take top dog place.

It's a neat little picture, and it is hard to see where the JF17 would fit in in it unfortunately.

 

[Red Moon]

The JF17 would be little less then block52+. Little in most aspects. I do not think it is something like F-5E.

actually PAF operates the F16 C/D Block 52+ which is a frontline fighter for the most modern airforces in the world, Poland, Greece and Morocco are recent buyers and PAF was only the 2nd nation after Israel to use it in actual combat against Soviet intruders during 1980s, the JF17 was centered around the handling and manvouring of the fighting falcon and as a result the JF17 also has those characteristics in addition to tailored capabilitys for PAF< so in that aspect JF17 is a step above the F16

PAF cut the F16 C/D order from 71 to 18 this only means that JF17 can match the new F16s, during interview PAF pilots said that visual awareness from the cockpit exceeds F16, with advanaced BVR capabilitys, mid air refueling, AWACS integration and anti-ship roles, I think JF17 is up there with F16s and F15 to suggest its F5 is ridiculous!

I think MirageDriver is not comparing the airplanes themselves, but the fact that both f5e and jf17, each in their own times, were/are relatively cheap modern fighters created for export.

 

[Miragedriver]

Sorry gentlemen. I was in no way referring to the JF-17 being in the same class as the F-5E. Just that the Chinese have not integrated the JF-17 into its air force and appear to be seeing it as an export aircraft. Just like the American did with the F-5E.

Just trying to make an analogy as to why it is not in use, not an actual performance comparison

 

[Lion]

Just to add on. Despite FC-1 is deemed short leg by PLAAF. With drop tank, this bird can have a ferry range of 3000km. Hardly short leg for countries like Pakistan or Argentina.

But of cos, for. Big country like china, she already live out the era of J-7 fighter. We are told , J-10 has even more range than FC-1.

 

[hwy401]

is any 2 seats for this bird , if it has .i think it will come training bird and light attach . if china use it they will put more load on it and speed .

 

[Qasim57]

I think WS-13A's development might have some bearing on whether PLAAF/PLANAF ever flies this bird.

There have been many countries from Indonesia, Azerbaijan, to even Turkey considering the JFT(as many folks in PAF call it), it seems to me that the main hurdle is Russia's engines. Obviously Russia does not want to help China&Pakistan sell these aircraft to potential Russian customers.

Perhaps WS-13A's development takes a backburner to WS-10A, as that is of a much greater importance to China's aeronautics industry, but as WS-13A continues to mature and customers finally believe that it doesn't really have any reliability issues on single-engine aircraft like the JF-17, this aircraft can see real success internationally.

 

[ikaleem]

I dont understand why Turkey would eve consider buying JF17 when they have their own assembly line for F-16s that are far superior.