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The Japan that can say no to US, who helped them rebuild their postwar nation.
What about Chinese, Koreans, Philippinos etc. Do they also have the right to say no?

There's some hope. Apparently Shintaro Isihara's principles only last long as no money is involved, he toadied pretty hard to China in return for supporting Japanese Olympic bids.

Personally I don't see it that way. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too. They will negotiate for short term favours but their long term agendas is unchanged.

Asymptote said:

I completely agree with Roger64.
I can't believe Japan is now trying to even dispute Chunxiao gas field which lies on the side of Chinese EEZ.

It seems it is a trend that Japan always trying to invade China or Korea. Historically, there is never a "China problem" for Japan where as Japan is ALWAYS a problem for China. Japan has historically benefited from China (technologies, religion, resources) while China has rarely been benefited from Japan. Japan had historically invaded China and Korea numerous times in the past - not even counting the times where Japanese pirates raided coastal area of Korea and China. While China never try to invade Japan once.


It seems Japanese are becoming more and more assertive now, they are already almost forgetting their WWII past. Every year, it seems the support to abandon article 9 is becoming stronger and stronger. Its only matter of time (maybe in less than a decade) when they will finally pass (they have already propose to abandon Article 9 numerous times in the past). They also upgraded their "defense agency" into a full "Ministry of Defense" just few years ago,while seeking to aggressively expanding their power projection capabilities (Hyūga class helicopter destroyers - which are helicopter carriers but in reality can easily be used as normal aircraft carriers when F-35s are sold to Japan), it won't be long they will start another war with China - sadly this time, at the delight and probably full support of American and their allies.

And I agree with Roger, Japan has little resources. For example - rare earth minerals, oil, gas, nuclear fuels, arable land. It cannot be self-sufficient no matter how much they try - and as year goes on, technological society requires enormous resources to sustain itself - especially for a high tech country like Japan. This will definitely be the driving factor for a new militarized Japan no matter how much they try to say they will never wage another war.

Its not because China wants a war with Japan, its because Japan wants to have a war with China (and eventually rest of Asia).

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Yeah, but most of that "support" comes from right-wing groups inside Japan and a few US pundits (still any form of repeal is a long time away as the Liberal Parties are quite pro-Article 9 [by that I mean DPJ, not LDP]). Its like saying the KKK, white supremacists and Neoconservative groups in the US has any sort of political sway.

And also, how is the Hyuga class of Helicopter Destroyer gonna be any sort of danger/force projector even with F-35s. It would basically function as a British Invincible class carrier operating a most a bare-bones wing of neutered STOVL/VTOL F-35s. Against any land based squadrons, its a floating coffin. At most, it will probably operate ASW helos in the even the PLAN tries to strangle Japan's shipping lanes as a result of a conflict from such disputes.

Besides, to outright oppose Article 9 is political suicide as outside of right-wing groups, most of the Japanese don't really see to do away with it. And I doubt that the US fully would support Japan if they decide to strike first. These disputes are nothing but minor spats that should be settled in international court. To spark a 3rd World War over this land dispute is ridiculous especially if its stemming from a conflict in the application of UNCLOS II and UNCLOSE III.


And if any of you had any idea how powerful the Japanese Bureaucracy and the related "Iron Triangle" is in Japan, you would then understand how the M.O.E can pass revisionist textbooks w/o incident and how most Japanese voters are voting blind or not voting at all (1/3 of the youth don't care enough to vote, ) which is one of the main reasons why a racist like Ishihara can get elected governor (Imagine if only the white people who supported Jim Crow were the only ones who cared enough to vote in the US, would you say that all Americans are racist, you can only claim we're just completely apathetic if we had allowed that to happen). These actions do not reflect of the Japanese people overall who I would say are being deluded and abused by their own government. Hopefully this revitalization of Japan's youth will change the country for the better.

the Hyuga class could carry F35's but not that many, a better option for that role is the larger 19500t class destroyer that is said too begin construction this year.

The thing about the Hyugas is to see them as an incremental step. Rewind 25 years and not only would the Japanese public have rejected the construction of a full carrier, but so would the US Navy. Even during the height of the Cold War, we simply did NOT want Japan getting into the power projection business.

The observation about the Hyugas being used as Invincible-style carriers in a pinch is an astute one, even if I do not agree quite so much about the prognosis. If they steamed into the Taiwan Straits, yes, they would get sent straight to the bottom. But judicious use of those ships and their improvised air complement -- namely, to support the fleet's existing air defense against a more moderate air attack -- is pretty reasonable. Like everything else, it depends on how they get used.

The larger and much more important point is what will the Japanese build after the Hyugas?

There is still a fairly good chance given the skyrocketing costs and delays to the F-35B that it could be cancelled like Gates said in January.

The larger and much more important point is what will the Japanese build after the Hyugas?

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Back in August of 2009 the Japanese approved a even Larger Aircraft Carrier. The 22DDH.

The nation's Maritime Self-Defence Force is reportedly planning to construct a new 248 metre long(813ft) 40 meters length(135ft) Draft of 9 meters(29ft) "The destroyer" is capable of transporting 14 helicopters(low ball figure), ????? troops and 50 trucks. She will displace approx. 30,000

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popeye's note >>> a ship this size if it has a full hangar should be capable of carrying at least 30 helos if in LPH configuration.

Depending on make and model of helicopter of course. estimates from global security say say she could carry 13-17 F35b Vtol fighters if Japan were too want any.

Assuming the F-35B's VTOL takeoff doesn't melt the 22DDH's flight deck.