SamuraiBlue
Captain
If that is true then all passive sonar would be considered useless as well.
Don't think so.
If that is true then all passive sonar would be considered useless as well.
Don't think so.
shen
Senior Member
LF passive sonars are still effective in the open ocean. But LF passive sonars are indeed ineffective in the littoral environment. Hence the trend toward powerful active VDS sonars (as we see on the ASW variant of Type 56) in modern warships.
I think he's talking about fixed passive sonar arrays versus submarines in a specific types of conditions (such as against submarines in littorals and at long range), I'm don't think that his logic means that all passive sonars aboard all types of emplacements (whether they be fixed, SURTASS, TAS, hull mounted, or submarine mounted) must be useless against submarines in all conditions (everything from a submarine at long range to having a submarine run at full power right next to a sonar array).
Personally I don't know enough about sonars to have any independent opinion, but logically speaking I think his premises do not support your conclusion.
Anyway, the announcement of this system is quite interesting; I wonder if it may be an adaptation of a previous US system that is now jointly operated or developed. I can't imagine the US has lacked SOSUS in westpac during the cold war.
SamuraiBlue
Captain
From what I hear the Japanese SOSUS system has a different origin in which it started out as a geographic listening system to detect underwater earthquakes. You might have heard it mentioned in the movie "Battleship" it's not limited in shallow littoral waters either.
SamuraiBlue
Captain
Banging away with AS at the surface really doesn't help much when the sub is under a thermal.
I believe that is why many western nations uses towed array sonars.
shen
Senior Member
VDS!
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Sosus was employed in the Wespac AOR, Project Azorian the CIA's attempt at recovering a sunk K129 submarine was based on data from Sosus and that submarine sits north of Midway.
considering that Sosus was developed in the 1950's becoming operational in the 1960's. It's likely that any modern system would be worlds away form the cold war era system. And the old school Sosus was a impressive system even capable of tracking whales.
considering that Sosus was developed in the 1950's becoming operational in the 1960's. It's likely that any modern system would be worlds away form the cold war era system. And the old school Sosus was a impressive system even capable of tracking whales.
I haven't watched that movie, so I wouldn't know.
How is it claimed to be not limited in littoral waters, and where is the claim made?
Do you mean towed VDS (variable depth sonar)? That's different to a standard TAS (which are generally considered as towed linear array sonar which is unable to change depths below the thermocline)
No doubt modern day systems would be much improved compared to legacy systems, but in what way is another matter, and whether inherent physical limitations exist.
For instance, a modern AEW&C may have much more powerful radar and processing compared to past generation AEW&C, but both are still limited in their look down range by radar horizon/altitude.
I'm not sure if similar principles exist which may place limits on the capability of fixed SOSUS systems as well -- as I say, I don't know very much about sonars.
SamuraiBlue
Captain
The continental shelf It's not like a hill where you can't see the horizon. There are peaks and valleys just like you see above water.
As for passive sonar there has been leaps and bounds in terms of technological advances which you can see similar technological advancements in commercial headphones, namely noise cancellation systems. If you have the ambient noise of the surrounding on library then you can identify the new ones that comes by.