J-35 carrier fighter (PLAN) thread

[tamsen_ikard]

It seems to me that your question is entirely too broad. You should narrow it down to specific components, like for instance with the engines. The F135 is almost certainly more capable than the WS-19, based on what information is publically available. But bear in mind that many specifics are not public knowledge.

When the western media and experts talk about the differences between F-35 and Chinese stealth aircraft. They do not talk about engine power. Their argument usually rests on two different aspects.

The first is so called sensor fusion, networking aspects of air warfare. The assumption is that F-35 are connected to all other F-35, AWACS and other systems to provide complete picture of the battlefield. Kinda like AEGIS of the air. The assumption that China does not have this.

The second aspect is stealth, the assumption is that F-35 has better stealth due to more stealth shaping. Especially all aspect stealth on all sides. They also assume F-35 has more Ram and better Ram materials.

 

[Blitzo]

When the western media and experts talk about the differences between F-35 and Chinese stealth aircraft. They do not talk about engine power. Their argument usually rests on two different aspects.

The first is so called sensor fusion, networking aspects of air warfare. The assumption is that F-35 are connected to all other F-35, AWACS and other systems to provide complete picture of the battlefield. Kinda like AEGIS of the air. The assumption that China does not have this.

The second aspect is stealth, the assumption is that F-35 has better stealth due to more stealth shaping. Especially all aspect stealth on all sides. They also assume F-35 has more Ram and better Ram materials.

My reply #2618 is the answer to your question.

You are essentially asking us to try and make sense of and explain why western media and "experts" say the narratives and stereotypes they do.

 

[tamsen_ikard]

My reply #2618 is the answer to your question.

You are essentially asking us to try and make sense of and explain why western media and "experts" say the narratives and stereotypes they do.

No, I am not looking for explanation about western narratives. My original question and subsequent question has one goal, is there any news, open source informaton from PLA enthusiasts, secret leaked info etc that shows how good J-35 is compared to F-35 when it comes to these so called weaknesses mentioned by the western media.

In other words, how good is Sensor-fusion, networking, radar tech of J-35 or Chinese Stealth planes in general compared to the F-35? Is it just as good? Better? Inferior to the F-35?

Or how good is J-35 stealth in terms of shaping, Ram coatings and so on. Or is China still inferior to the US when it comes to these technologies.

Finally, because J-35 was designed 15-20 years after F-35, there has been advances in physics, material science, design software, 3d printing and so on. So, did this lead to J-35 having more advanced design compared to the F-35? So that it has more "inherent" advantages that future F-35 upgrades cannot overcome?

I know this is broad question but I want to understand the overall standing of the J-35 vs F-35 or the best the west can offer right now.

Or maybe even a much summarized question. Is J-35 a more advanced plane than F-35, Or is just a catchup compared to the F-35? Or is still inferior to F-35 in terms of these technologies and capabilities?

 

[Deleted member 24525]

In western media and expert circles, it is almost expected knowledge that F-35 is considered more advanced than Chinese stealth planes like J-20 or coming J-35. Eventhough J-35 will come almost 15-20 years after the F-35. How true is this? Is J-35 just a catch up to the US tech that came 15 years before? Or is there something more advanced than F-35 in the J-35 even if some of the subsystems are just catchup.

Like others have said this question is extremely broad. The basic picture is this:

Engine wise, the F-35 is definitely more capable, but present-day indigenous Chinese engines are pretty good nonetheless.

Electronics wise it's a lot more difficult to know since there are so many different systems on board and the details of their capabilities are under basically complete lock. Unlike in engines though, Chinese sensor and communications technologies are at a world-leading level in the civilian sector, so it is likely that the capability of these systems in the military context are equally high. That being said American capabilities are also exceptional and the countries are probably about equal in terms of the C4ISR tech available on their jets. The F-35, J-20, and future J-35 are all highly mobile, low-visibility information sponges and communication relays with significant onboard computing power, and that can also shoot back if attacked. They are all very, very good at being this. That's about the extent of what can be known based on unclassified information.

As to why western journalists say otherwise, well, they're dumb and biased. That's it.

 

[Blitzo]

No, I am not looking for explanation about western narratives. My original question and subsequent question has one goal, is there any news, open source informaton from PLA enthusiasts, secret leaked info etc that shows how good J-35 is compared to F-35 when it comes to these so called weaknesses mentioned by the western media.

In other words, how good is Sensor-fusion, networking, radar tech of J-35 or Chinese Stealth planes in general compared to the F-35? Is it just as good? Better? Inferior to the F-35?

Or how good is J-35 stealth in terms of shaping, Ram coatings and so on. Or is China still inferior to the US when it comes to these technologies.

Finally, because J-35 was designed 15-20 years after F-35, there has been advances in physics, material science, design software, 3d printing and so on. So, did this lead to J-35 having more advanced design compared to the F-35? So that it has more "inherent" advantages that future F-35 upgrades cannot overcome?

I know this is broad question but I want to understand the overall standing of the J-35 vs F-35 or the best the west can offer right now.

Or maybe even a much summarized question. Is J-35 a more advanced plane than F-35, Or is just a catchup compared to the F-35? Or is still inferior to F-35 in terms of these technologies and capabilities?

There is no credible answer in the public space to address your questions.

A better way of addressing this is to first challenge the narratives from western media and "experts" as to where their conclusions are coming from -- the onus on producing evidence is on them.

 

[Phead128]

I would like to say a large majority (66%) of Americans DO NOT trust their mainstream media, a new record low in trust in historical terms.

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TLDR: not even the American public believes their own media... Why would anyone treat their analysis of Chinese weapons with anything except a huge grain of salt?

 

[Wrought]

Not really. If the estimated specs for the WS-19 are met it shouldn't be behind the F135. There is more to engines than thrust. The engine is much smaller and lighter than the F135. You will need to look at thrust to weight, and fuel consumption.

I'm not an turbofan expert by any means, but strictly speaking about the physics of engine diameter, turbine blades, and so on a single larger engine is absolutely superior to two smaller ones in terms of thrust-to-weight. I've also seen previous sources on this forum that the WS-19 will be roughly comparable to the F414 which is, needless to say, quite inferior to the F135. If you have different sources with different numbers then I would of course be happy to see them.

 

[sunnymaxi]

I'm not an turbofan expert by any means, but strictly speaking about the physics of engine diameter, turbine blades, and so on a single larger engine is absolutely superior to two smaller ones in terms of thrust-to-weight. I've also seen previous sources on this forum that the WS-19 will be roughly comparable to the F414 which is, needless to say, quite inferior to the F135. If you have different sources with different numbers then I would of course be happy to see them.

just coz WS-19 thrust and other specifications is comparable to F414, doesn't mean WS-19 will be F414 equivalent engine ..

there are three process that can define the ENGINE quality and performance

1. engine cycle design (that’s things like the number of fan compressor and turbine stages, and mechanical efficiency of the turbine, etc).

2. material quality, which determines “how hard and fast and hot can run this engine

3. and the most important is your production process quality.

----------------------------------

WS-19 borrowed technology and components from WS-15 and advance manufacturing process will take engine to next level.

total thrust will be over 10 tons and T/W ratio will also be over 10.. that's the minimum

 

[Dante80]

Or maybe even a much summarized question. Is J-35 a more advanced plane than F-35, Or is just a catchup compared to the F-35? Or is still inferior to F-35 in terms of these technologies and capabilities?

Nobody knows, the J-35 program is surrounded by secrecy. Anyone actually coming to conclusions has to produce evidence for them. One way, or the other.

This cuts both ways btw, concerning both "western narratives" and "eastern hopes". Which makes these kind of comparison discussions somewhat irrelevant and pointless (aside from sometimes being a coping mechanism for participants playing team politics).

 

[Wrought]

just coz WS-19 thrust and other specifications is comparable to F414, doesn't mean WS-19 will be F414 equivalent engine ..

there are three process that can define the ENGINE quality and performance

1. engine cycle design (that’s things like the number of fan compressor and turbine stages, and mechanical efficiency of the turbine, etc).

2. material quality, which determines “how hard and fast and hot can run this engine

3. and the most important is your production process quality.

----------------------------------

WS-19 borrowed technology and components from WS-15 and advance manufacturing process will take engine to next level.

total thrust will be over 10 tons and T/W ratio will also be over 10.. that's the minimum

I don't follow your logic. You first accept that the WS-19 is comparable to the F414 in terms of technical specifications as reported, but then claim that it will still somehow exceed it? It is obviously true that engine design, materials, and process will all contribute to the end product, and the WS-19 will presumably benefit from them, but their contributions will by definition be reflected in the greater thrust, lighter weight, longer lifespan, and other quantifiable metrics reported in the technical specifications.

That is to say, I understand if you are claiming that previously reported WS-19 specs are inaccurate or outdated (and therefore current, better specs exist), but if you are saying that the (correct) specs still do not reflect performance that does not seem credible to me.