J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Re: New Generation Fighter

King_Comm said:

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It's in Chinese though, and a scan of a hard copy. Only free version I could find.

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Thanks, I appreciate it. Too bad it hasn't been translated, I was hoping for some drawings. It allegedly supports the design we are talking about.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Roger604 said:

I feel dead certain this new picture is really it. This really is the J-20. Congratulations to China :china:

The angles line up, the body and wing are totally blended. This is not F-22 level of RCS; this is F-23 level of RCS. The vertical stabilizers are really small thanks to TVC. The entire canard delta set up looks extremely agile -- even more agile than Eurofighter. Together with the two 15-ton thrust 2D TVC supercruising engines under development, the canard delta is at a big advantage at high speed. With F-22 style stealthy nozzles, it is clearly optimized for all-aspect stealth. So this is why President Hu paid a visit to CAC!

The disadvantages? It can't carry as much ordnance as say T-50. It looks roughly the same size as F-22.


Next, China needs to develop a fighter bomber -- a delta-like conventional layout with blended wing, and engines wide apart like T-50 to allow for big bays and electronics in the tail.

Or alternatively, it could just build something like the Anjian / Anying unmanned UCAV.

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Dude it's not an official photo or anything, just a fan photo which could be similar to the actual thing. and the engine nozzles could very well turn out to be just plain normal ones, (maya said something about WS-15 being equipped with 3D nozzles isntead of rectangular ones cause the latter was harder to produce).

Let's wait until we see the first picture of a mock up or a first flight before we start making assessments...

Re: New Generation Fighter

apparently, the Chinese military fans have been getting together all sorts of info from "insiders" on the design and then piece the puzzle together. a lot of it does make sense so i'd say the real thing should not look too different

Re: New Generation Fighter

lilzz said:

Let's do worst case scenario, Let's say CHina can't make that supercrusing TVC engine.

Can such stealth design like above with WS10A , AESA radar and BVR weapons go against F-22 and T-50?

what chances do you give them?

Personally, I think such worst case design can still do serious damages against the opponents

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First off, the 5th generation fighter engine project is going much more smoothly than Taihang did. So we shouldn't be overly lowering our expectations just because of the 2 year delay of Taihang due to the manufacturing process defects.

I think the primary advantage of supercruise is that it allows a stealth fighter to run away from a non-stealth fighter to stay in BVR range (stay out of WVR range). Against an F-22, the J-20 would be able to fire its missiles first and at WVR it should be far superior.

If J-20 is stealthier and more agile than F-22, it is by implication stealthier and more agile than T-50.

In short, China's J-20 is the most advanced fighter jet in the world. :china:

Bltizo said:

Dude it's not an official photo or anything, just a fan photo which could be similar to the actual thing. and the engine nozzles could very well turn out to be just plain normal ones, (maya said something about WS-15 being equipped with 3D nozzles isntead of rectangular ones cause the latter was harder to produce).

Let's wait until we see the first picture of a mock up or a first flight before we start making assessments...

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No no no..... some of us have been watching and waiting for the "J-XX" for a while and we've seen all kinds of fan art. But this one really stands out, the design is way too realistic and professional to be mere fan art.

And considering that J-20 prototype has been built and will be flying either this year or next, it is natural that more information surfaced at this time.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Roger604 said:

In short, China's J-20 is the most advanced fighter jet in the world. :china:

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Careful, you might wanna lower that expectation a little... and even when it flies it'll prolly be lacking the WS-15 and various avionics.

No no no..... some of us have been watching and waiting for the "J-XX" for a while and we've seen all kinds of fan art. But this one really stands out, the design is way too realistic and professional to be mere fan art.

And considering that J-20 prototype has been built and will be flying either this year or next, it is natural that more information surfaced at this time.

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Yeah, I too have been waiting for the J-XX for ages - but I wouldnt' take that particular picture as what the actual plane'll look like. (I mean, it isn't like that PAK FA picture made by Saturn (the engine company), which turned out to be very accurate to the real thing. This pic simply doesn't have the kind of credibility for us to be making all these assumptions and assessments imho)

Re: New Generation Fighter

Roger604 said:

First off, the 5th generation fighter engine project is going much more smoothly than Taihang did. So we shouldn't be overly lowering our expectations just because of the 2 year delay of Taihang due to the manufacturing process defects.

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I agree. Personally though, I think what happened was that many WS10 variants were planned, but because it was delayed several times and the WS15 was going so well, it was decided that it would better to cancel several of the WS10 variants and instead transfer those engineers and resources to the WS15 project to further speed it up. There is no sense in spending time, money, and resources on a WS10G engine that was to be finished in 2015 when the WS15 could be completed in 2017.

I am not convinced that this design we see represents what china is developing, maybe 6th gen fighter...not 5th. But who knows, it might be (i hope so). In my experience with Chinese designs though, China has always been very conservative, this blended delta-canard seems way too radical....

Re: New Generation Fighter

the reason why China declined to cooperate with Russia was because WS-15 went smoothly, that's the biggest concern they should have.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Yes, at this stage its too early to tell this is the best 5th generation fighter, too many variables/uncertainties there.

Re: New Generation Fighter



This is an article by richard fisher. I dont think he is much reliable, but he talks a lot about current and future chinese air projects. What do you think about it?

by the way is there any photo of WS-15?

Re: New Generation Fighter

I really believe that this fighter will be more in the neighbourhood of F-35 and PAK FA than F-22, especially in terms of stealthiness. Remember that the stealthy properties of the F-22 gives it massive maintenance costs, to the point where it's effectively been canned by the USAF. This thing isn't even being used in Iraq and Afghanistan, because it's not only too expensive to lose but too expensive to USE; there's no way that the PLAAF would accept those kinds of costs.

To make a fighter on the level of F-22 in performance AND cost less to maintain would be a massive leap forward, one that sounds too good to be true.