Agreed that the F-35 will make up the bulk of USAF... Too much money has been spent on that project.
J-20... The New Generation Fighter
- Thread starter Delbert
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Agreed that the F-35 will make up the bulk of USAF... Too much money has been spent on that project.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
The US with China's neighbor's were already to the least aiming to scare China with hints of military encirclement before the J-20 appearance. It is actually more telling of those speaking of consequences over the J-XX program that was already well spoken of existing for years. China is suppose to worry about what others will think? Ironic to believe China can so easily be coerced yet the reason why they all are suspicious in general is because China does not following their lead or commands. And don't listen to the threats of Cold War and an arms race. All because of the J-20? No, it was happening way before that. What really bugs them was they thought this was an exclusive club where the special prerequisites of being part of that club was elusive for China. How many countries were suppose to have an indigenous 5th generation in production before China? Quite an embarrassing turn of events for those comforted in their supeirority. I love the choices that China has from them. Accepting being laughed at because they think of you as inferior is better than them in fear of you, not because you've started a war with anyone, but because you have shown you're not as inferior as they think. I'll take the latter.
Our friend Pinkov. Basically, he admits the existence of Chinese generation aircraft, and praises CF. However, he continues to attack SF for copyright issues, and believes this fighter would take up to 10-15 to mature. Pinkov believes the engine is WS10.
推荐：平可夫談“具有中國特色的四代機”
漢和創辦人平可夫今日表示：成都132廠12月亮相的四代機是真實的。他表示：這一次中國航空工業集團的文宣並未對這種飛機的亮相作出嚴格限制。
平可夫認為：這是相當成熟、有創造力的設計，成都132廠是成功者，具備了真正的實力，勝利者是不應該受到批評的（斯大林）。
平可夫認為四代機的出現，徹底結束了中國戰鬥機工業的仿製時代，開始成為世界航空工業的重要一極。他同時再次嚴厲批判了瀋陽飛機公司克隆Su33、 Su27UBK的做法，認為需要向成都學習。“前者的做法，造成了十分惡劣的國際影響，葬送了已經脆弱的俄中軍事合作關係，而且沒有必要”。平可夫表示。
“成都四代機的全動式垂直尾翼、切面全動式三角翼、邊條的設計，促使中國四代機具備了空前的機動性，尤其是橫向機動性、低速機動性、低空機動性，這為彌補缺乏矢量推進發動機技術的不足，作出的補償。但是三角翼在一定程度上犧牲了隱形性，儘管如此132廠是務實的，在隱形材料技術達不到F22的標準的情況下，以高機動性獲得某種補償，這樣的設計是合理的”。平可夫表示。
平可夫認為高度值得注意的是殲20試驗機使用了國產的發動機，沒有加裝矢量噴管，證明WS10得到了認可，也是國際航空史上的創舉，新飛機在試飛階段使用新發動機。
平可夫表示：大型化的機身設計，主要是加長內置式彈倉的需要，這樣J20實際上是多用途戰鬥機的概念，在加裝空中加油管之後，有能力以遠程巡航導彈攻擊關島的目標。同時未來換裝大推力發動機時候，後部機身還需要適當擴大，以容納更大的風扇，因此這一設計也擁有一定的道理。
但是平可夫認為無論是隱形性、還是巡航速度上，四代試驗機無法達到美俄四代機的標準，是典型的“具有中國特色”的四代機。依照J20的空重和中國產發動機的加力推力，目前的J20要達到超音速巡航能力是不可能的，同時也沒有矢量推進技術，僅此一項，就不是西方、俄羅斯四代機的標準。此外早已立項的有源相控陣雷達的研製時間尚需要至少7、8年以上。J20的試飛機也沒有裝備矢量推進噴管。
儘管如此，平可夫認為通過大約10-15年的努力，在15000公斤加力推力的大型渦扇發動機（關鍵是材料）、有源相控陣雷達裝備J20之後，J20完全有能力達到俄美四代機的標準，在機動性方面甚至更好
推荐：平可夫談“具有中國特色的四代機”
漢和創辦人平可夫今日表示：成都132廠12月亮相的四代機是真實的。他表示：這一次中國航空工業集團的文宣並未對這種飛機的亮相作出嚴格限制。
平可夫認為：這是相當成熟、有創造力的設計，成都132廠是成功者，具備了真正的實力，勝利者是不應該受到批評的（斯大林）。
平可夫認為四代機的出現，徹底結束了中國戰鬥機工業的仿製時代，開始成為世界航空工業的重要一極。他同時再次嚴厲批判了瀋陽飛機公司克隆Su33、 Su27UBK的做法，認為需要向成都學習。“前者的做法，造成了十分惡劣的國際影響，葬送了已經脆弱的俄中軍事合作關係，而且沒有必要”。平可夫表示。
“成都四代機的全動式垂直尾翼、切面全動式三角翼、邊條的設計，促使中國四代機具備了空前的機動性，尤其是橫向機動性、低速機動性、低空機動性，這為彌補缺乏矢量推進發動機技術的不足，作出的補償。但是三角翼在一定程度上犧牲了隱形性，儘管如此132廠是務實的，在隱形材料技術達不到F22的標準的情況下，以高機動性獲得某種補償，這樣的設計是合理的”。平可夫表示。
平可夫認為高度值得注意的是殲20試驗機使用了國產的發動機，沒有加裝矢量噴管，證明WS10得到了認可，也是國際航空史上的創舉，新飛機在試飛階段使用新發動機。
平可夫表示：大型化的機身設計，主要是加長內置式彈倉的需要，這樣J20實際上是多用途戰鬥機的概念，在加裝空中加油管之後，有能力以遠程巡航導彈攻擊關島的目標。同時未來換裝大推力發動機時候，後部機身還需要適當擴大，以容納更大的風扇，因此這一設計也擁有一定的道理。
但是平可夫認為無論是隱形性、還是巡航速度上，四代試驗機無法達到美俄四代機的標準，是典型的“具有中國特色”的四代機。依照J20的空重和中國產發動機的加力推力，目前的J20要達到超音速巡航能力是不可能的，同時也沒有矢量推進技術，僅此一項，就不是西方、俄羅斯四代機的標準。此外早已立項的有源相控陣雷達的研製時間尚需要至少7、8年以上。J20的試飛機也沒有裝備矢量推進噴管。
儘管如此，平可夫認為通過大約10-15年的努力，在15000公斤加力推力的大型渦扇發動機（關鍵是材料）、有源相控陣雷達裝備J20之後，J20完全有能力達到俄美四代機的標準，在機動性方面甚至更好
kwaigonegin
Colonel
I guess it all depends on the development of an even newer aircraft yet to be known. With the F-22 being 25 years old (from start of initial development) I find it hard to believe that the USAF do not have some projects in the works already. The F-35 was never intended to be an F-22/F-15 replacement.
I wouldn't be too surprise if we see a new type of USAF air superiority/attack fighter (6th Gen ?) before this new decade is over ... at least in the prototype stage and maybe IOC 5 to 10 yrs later. By then most if not all F-15's would've been retired and the limited number of F-22s remaining would've been flying for 20 yrs by then.
sorry this post was respond to Blitzo's post above
I wouldn't be too surprise if we see a new type of USAF air superiority/attack fighter (6th Gen ?) before this new decade is over ... at least in the prototype stage and maybe IOC 5 to 10 yrs later. By then most if not all F-15's would've been retired and the limited number of F-22s remaining would've been flying for 20 yrs by then.
sorry this post was respond to Blitzo's post above
Subedei
Banned Idiot
Excellent parry!!!
Anyone convinced of the comprehensive superiority of the F-22 over any -in service- platform -especially considering sustainability as an essential criteria- might take a look at Wikipedia's paragraph on maintenance in their F-22 entry. It cites authoritative sources and the official data cited are not encouraging, e. g., "34 hours of maintenance per single hour of flight at a cost of $49,808 per hour of flight". Granted, the T-50 and J-20 have yet to achieve operational status, and their analogous maintenance committments could be just as exorbitant. Nonetheless, considering these data, we might question as to whether or not the F-22 program can really be considered a success. And, especially within this particular discussion, a success worth repeating.
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So he isn't gonna end Kanwa's publication till 8-10 years later no?
Dude you seriously need to update your info...
Skywatcher
Captain
The F-22 machinery and blueprints are stored away, though restart costs could be up to an additional 50-75 million for an additional order of 75 more Raptors. They'll probably want to do upgrades and all, possibly for a double order five, ten years later.
A rough translation of previous article.
Andrei Chang on "the fourth generation fighter with Chinese characteristics"
Today, Kanwa founder Andrei Chang said that the Factory 132 in Chengdu debut a four generations aircraft in December is real. He said this time the propaganda department of China Aviation Industry Group for this aircraft did not appear to be strictly controlled.
Andrei Chang said that this is a very mature and creative design, Chengdu 132 is a successful plant with a real strength, the winner should not be criticized (Stalin).
Andrei Chang believed the emergence of four generations fighter would bring a complete end to imitation of Chinese military aircraft industrial era. China would become one of the important pole of the world's aviation industry. He also again severely criticized Shenyang Aircraft Corporation cloning Su33 and Su27UBK and believed Shenyang Aircraft Corporation has the need to learn from Chengdu. "The former approach, resulting in a very bad influence on international relations, ruin the already fragile Russian-Chinese military cooperation, and is not necessary." Andrei Chang said.
Chengdu four generations aircraft has all moving vertical tail, section of the all movable acting delta wings, edge design, provide China's fourth generation aircraft with unprecedented maneuvering, especially lateral maneuvering, low maneuvering and to compensate for its inadequate vector propulsion technology. But the delta wing would sacrifice a certain degree of stealth, in spite of this 132 plants is pragmatic, when China stealth materials technology does not reach the level of F22, in order to make some kind of compensation for the high maneuvering, such a design is reasonable. " Andrei Chang said.
Andrei Chang said that it is worth noting that the aircraft is using engine that made in China, there is no installation of vectoring nozzle, this is a recognized proof of WS10 is accepted. It is also a pioneering undertaking in the history of international aviation, as a new aircraft in the flight test phase used a new engine.
Andrei Chang said that the large-scale body design and built-in internal bay are needed, so that J20 is actually a concept of multi-role fighter. After the installation of air refueling, the ability to launch long-range cruise missiles on Guam. At the same time when the next phase installation of large thrust engine, the rear fuselage needs to be properly expanded to accommodate more fans, so this design has some valid.
But Andrei Chang said that for the matter of stealth or the cruising speed, this aircraft does not meet the four generations of US-Russian aircraft and it can not reach the standard of four-generation fighter, it is a typical four generations fighter "with Chinese characteristics". In accordance with J20's empty weight and engine with after burn, the current J20 is incapable to reach supersonic cruise capability. It has no vector propulsion technology. With this alone, this aircraft does not meet the standard of the West and Russian four generations fighter. Furthermore, phased array radar development still requires at least 7-8 years. At the trial flights J20 aircraft is not equipped vector forward nozzle.
However, Andrei Chang said that within 10-15 years after the implementation of WS15 with an 15,000 kg large turbofan engines(the key is material) and active phased array radar, J20 will meet the standard of the Russia and the U.S. to become a fully capable four generations aircraft or even better in maneuvering.
Andrei Chang on "the fourth generation fighter with Chinese characteristics"
Today, Kanwa founder Andrei Chang said that the Factory 132 in Chengdu debut a four generations aircraft in December is real. He said this time the propaganda department of China Aviation Industry Group for this aircraft did not appear to be strictly controlled.
Andrei Chang said that this is a very mature and creative design, Chengdu 132 is a successful plant with a real strength, the winner should not be criticized (Stalin).
Andrei Chang believed the emergence of four generations fighter would bring a complete end to imitation of Chinese military aircraft industrial era. China would become one of the important pole of the world's aviation industry. He also again severely criticized Shenyang Aircraft Corporation cloning Su33 and Su27UBK and believed Shenyang Aircraft Corporation has the need to learn from Chengdu. "The former approach, resulting in a very bad influence on international relations, ruin the already fragile Russian-Chinese military cooperation, and is not necessary." Andrei Chang said.
Chengdu four generations aircraft has all moving vertical tail, section of the all movable acting delta wings, edge design, provide China's fourth generation aircraft with unprecedented maneuvering, especially lateral maneuvering, low maneuvering and to compensate for its inadequate vector propulsion technology. But the delta wing would sacrifice a certain degree of stealth, in spite of this 132 plants is pragmatic, when China stealth materials technology does not reach the level of F22, in order to make some kind of compensation for the high maneuvering, such a design is reasonable. " Andrei Chang said.
Andrei Chang said that it is worth noting that the aircraft is using engine that made in China, there is no installation of vectoring nozzle, this is a recognized proof of WS10 is accepted. It is also a pioneering undertaking in the history of international aviation, as a new aircraft in the flight test phase used a new engine.
Andrei Chang said that the large-scale body design and built-in internal bay are needed, so that J20 is actually a concept of multi-role fighter. After the installation of air refueling, the ability to launch long-range cruise missiles on Guam. At the same time when the next phase installation of large thrust engine, the rear fuselage needs to be properly expanded to accommodate more fans, so this design has some valid.
But Andrei Chang said that for the matter of stealth or the cruising speed, this aircraft does not meet the four generations of US-Russian aircraft and it can not reach the standard of four-generation fighter, it is a typical four generations fighter "with Chinese characteristics". In accordance with J20's empty weight and engine with after burn, the current J20 is incapable to reach supersonic cruise capability. It has no vector propulsion technology. With this alone, this aircraft does not meet the standard of the West and Russian four generations fighter. Furthermore, phased array radar development still requires at least 7-8 years. At the trial flights J20 aircraft is not equipped vector forward nozzle.
However, Andrei Chang said that within 10-15 years after the implementation of WS15 with an 15,000 kg large turbofan engines(the key is material) and active phased array radar, J20 will meet the standard of the Russia and the U.S. to become a fully capable four generations aircraft or even better in maneuvering.
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