J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

Air Force Brat said:

I didn't mention size, I just asked what people thought of editor Tirpaks observations about the role of the F-60, as an A2A aircraft with possible Naval applications, as opposed to his comments about the J-20, I know what the J-20s proposed role is, having read Dr. Songs excellent paper. As the editor of Air Force Magazine, editor Tirpak is well studied in all aspects of not only design, but functionality. I honestly have to state that he has more credibility than most posters, who often allow their loyalties and emotions to make some absurd commentary, that ignore the laws of physics and in particular the laws of aerodynamics, I was hoping for some acknowledgement that he may be onto something, affirming many of my own observations?

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The length comment was directed at siege. On on that subject though I'm sure Mr. Tirpak has plenty of credibility, but we all draw most of that credibility from the same source, the laws of physics. In the case performance, it would be faulty to simply look at one factor. A longer body does tend to increase the moment of inertia. However, we can't judge that simply by the outer dimensions of an object. It's the mass distribution that counts. Even if the moment of inertia is longer though, all it means is that the plane will have to generate a greater pitching force to compensate. A good lift coefficient at the nose, long coupled canards, and TVC can all increase the amount of pitching force. At the end what matters isn't how long or short the plane is, but what the raw performance numbers are. Those are a function of more than just one factor, and in this case length is simply a potential factor of one of those factors (mass distribution).

J-20 #2001 at CFTE

Mods please place this the J-31 thread when it reopens.

Here's the latest.

escobar said:

J-20 #2001 at CFTE

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One can see that the helicopter is slightly longer than the J-20! It could be the Z-8, which has a length of 23.03 m!

Gentlemen，I just learned that the J-2002 also went to Yanliang. What's going on? It's so out of the blue, with no J-2003 spotted yet...

if that is true, i see nothing strange with it. 2001 was first of its kind, it needed more very basic testing, stuff that could be done at CAC's airfield. There was no need to go through all that with 2002 as well, so it ended its portion of testing at CAC faster. Now they are both doing more complex tests at Yanliang. next flying prototype, be it 2003 or 2004 (one more should come for ground tests) is still being manufactured by hand so it will probably take almost as long to produce as 2002 took. And that means at least a year after 2002, so I wouldn't be hoping for next prototype for the next 7 or 8 months. Pak fa had 13 month hiatus between first and second flying prototype (j20 had 15 months) and 18 months between second and third. (though it was said there were considerable delays there and that originally they hoped for the third prototype to fly 10-11 months after the second one)

So, realistically, at least a year's worth between 2002 and 2003 is to be expected and is normal. That should drop a month or two for the next several prototypes and then, around 2015/2016 when the production line is tested, the preproduction batch should be made fairly quickly, just a few months between planes.

Hehe, I didn't feel strange at all. I just thought we'd see 2003 before 2002 leaves. I understand your reasoning, but somehow I still expect 2003 will come out much earlier than you predicted above. Let's just wait and see.

Engineer said:

The Su-27 being a more maneuverable aircraft than the MiG-21 is also a lot bigger, yet you don't call the Su-27 a striker. Size has little correlation with maneuverability. Those authors just say what they want to believe.

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The Su-27 is a fourth gen aircraft and the Mig 21 a second gen aircraft with a proportionately longer fuselage and a shorter more highly loaded wing. However, if you can scare up about 95k us I will personally purchase the two of us a mig-21UM 2 place, and we could go find out on our own. My point is that editor Tirpak observed that the F-60 is as likely intended for the A2A role as J-20. An yes there are currently 2 Mig 21 two holers for sale in trade a plane, one a few hours from here. Kool!

Well, magazine editors can be wrong too, as with many of the magazine articles in due time. The Typhoon has a longer fuselage than the Rafale but we don't see much difference in their maneouvrebility.