J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

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latenlazy

Brigadier
NikeX said:
Right now there are several factors that are hampering the development of advanced engines for Chinese fighters. The time window needed to overcome these challenges are unknown for Chinese aerospace. The time discussed for these advanced engines is in the early 2020's. To be realistic that sounds about right
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I'm curious to hear what you think the challenges are. There seems to be a disagreement inside and outside the Chinese community to which problems still persist and which ones have been resolved.

Paper airplanes are just that...paper airplanes. Get back to me when Chinese aerospace takes the next step in the development of the J-20

There are no magic steps or shortcuts you can take to bring J-20 to fruition any faster than the rest of the world's aerospace companies needed to create their advanced 5th gen fighters

That remains to be seen. These are exciting times
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Paper airplanes are indeed just paper airplanes, but the defense corporations are not a bunch of fanboy armchair designers either. So far, they've had a pretty good record fulfilling expectations.

Well, there are in fact magical steps and shortcuts, at least when you compare the development of the ATF to any future fighter going forth. Our instruments, tools, and support technologies have all become more advanced. I simply do not expect any 5th generation program, China included, to take as long as the F-22 did based simply on that element alone.
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
NikeX said:
Right now there are several factors that are hampering the development of advanced engines for Chinese fighters. The time window needed to overcome these challenges are unknown for Chinese aerospace. The time discussed for these advanced engines is in the early 2020's. To be realistic that sounds about right
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Right now, the factors that are hampering Chinese development of advanced engines are completely unknown. Throughout the years, there have been news about breakthrough in materials, metallurgy, and reliability of the engines themselves. The last unofficial news about WS-15 claimed that progress is smooth and the project is in fact ahead of schedule. Your 2020 date reminds me of a similar projection the West has given for the appearance of the J-20. When it comes down to projection, the value given by the West should be taken with a grain of salt.

NikeX said:
There are no magic steps or shortcuts you can take to bring J-20 to fruition any faster than the rest of the world's aerospace companies needed to create their advanced 5th gen fighters
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You need to realize that up until the unveil of J-20, the West still believes the plane to be under design. China appears to progress so quickly because China is indeed progressing very quickly, but another reason is that the West likes to underestimates China. Just because China says nothing about its projects, that doesn't mean these projects don't exist. Work on the J-20 has already been going on for a very long time before the Western public first hears about it.
 
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jackliu

Banned Idiot
NikeX said:
All this is nice talk but until the J-20 flies with its advanced engines all it is, is talk and conjecture.
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That is not what you said few pages ago, you were clearly dismissing J-20 due to various reason, one of them is engine, until someone show you the proof that it is not impossible, and since we don't know the result yet, all we can say is we cannot make a judgement, however it seems you want to keep insisting that since we don't know the result yet, therefore I'm going to make a conclusion that this will be a failure.

Now do you see the failure in your logic? And the clear bias that you have so often exhibit on this board over and over again?
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
NikeX said:
But until you begin to explore the fight envelope at supersonic speeds how can anyone say how advanced the aerodynamics really are? Maneuvering at supersonic speeds during supercruise is where a 5th gen fighter makes its living and as we all realize the J-20 is waiting on the engines to test out its ability to supercruise.

This is what I meant by conjecture. They need to open up J-20 and let her go. That is what I am interested in seeing.
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Well, I think you are on the right track, granted our brothers are right when they say they won't have to reinvent the wheel, and the tech that has been "borrowed" by our friends is patented and proprietary, but the application of same will require lots of time and flight testing. All that computer modeling is great, but in the case of the F-35 there have been lots of little suprises, ie melting horizontal stabs, bulkhead cracking, root rib cracking. In short those issues may well crop up on the J-20, and unlike the US, where citizens are a part of the military culture, and make many decisions with their checkbooks, the Chinese military is a closed monolith, and they will never admit their failings publicly, so we will likely never know a lot more about the J-20 unless it is a raging success. Hehe, just a fact of life, but the truth is that openess and self introspection, and striving for excellence has its own rewards if you are willing to put yourself "out there".

Thats why the serious flight testing of the J-20 has been moved away from Chengdu, I would love to see how she does post stall, and opened up as you say, however I did note that from the few aileron rolls we saw on some of the early videos, it appears that the J-20 does indeed handle quite well. It is ashamed that someone as brilliant and honest as Dr. Song will never achieve the peer recognition he has earned, but like many others he will "muzzled", and thats a real shame for all of his fans such as you and I, and our other forum friends, and it will ultimately limit the truth and continue to promote the NIH mentality. Shame, as many of my preconcieved notions about China have proven false, and I really have enjoyed all these kool pictures and insights from our Sino D brothers.
 
S

Schumacher

Senior Member
NikeX said:
As mentioned earlier there seemed to be no reference to F22 problems during the recent Red Flag encounters with the Eurofighters in one-on-one dogfights, so I would say that is a pretty good indication that the problems have been solved
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Little about how the exercises are carried out are known. What is publicized is usually just a small part.
We need an official lifting of all restrictions and then a period of time monitoring given USAF's history of cover-ups on this issue.
 
A

A.Man

Major
CIA Probably Would Put This Photo On File If They Paid For It.

It is free!

1813121s6fsv86qxsx51jy.jpg
 
J

jackliu

Banned Idiot
Engineer said:
With two prototypes already flying, the J-20 is hardly just a paper airplane. :rolleyes:
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He sound very much like one of those Christian fundamentalist that cannot accept the theory of evolution, they ask for the link between human and other organisms, when it was provided, they ask the link for connection between that and human, and when that was provided they ask for more and more links until it was too precise that no link can be found, therefore they use this evidence to say that they whole theory is false. However only fool cannot see the obvious pattern, but yet, they still won't accept it.

There is a saying that goes, there is no man more blind then the ones that refuses to accept reality.
 
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