J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

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Martian

Senior Member
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Come on...I know I saw a F-22 on my radar a second ago.

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Let's examine the J-20 Mighty Dragon side-weapon bay!

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You (on the left) keep a "look out" while the rest of us sneak a peek.

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Who wants to be the J-20 Mighty Dragon test pilot today?

[video=youtube;VsFy98qwKd4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VsFy98qwKd4[/video]

[Note: Thank you to HouShanghai for the pictures and video.]
 
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delft

Brigadier
They are reported in the video as sensors that were attached to collect aerodynamic data on various positions of the plane.

Probably to check with, verify and reinforce wind tunnel data.
Don't forget the aerodynamic predictions developed using super computers.
 

Delbert

Junior Member
Will this just be a technology demonstrator? Or a prototype for a final plane?

I just wonder how can PLA asses if this was indeed better or at par with F-22 or the Russian PAK-FA, of the F-35?
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Will this just be a technology demonstrator? Or a prototype for a final plane?

It is a prototype for a final plane, but there might and probably will still be small changes made between here and the first production ones.
It's certainly not a tech demonstrator like the Su-47/Mig MFI and not exactly a "competitor prototype" like the YF-22 or YF-23 either.

I would say it's around the T-50's stage in prototypes, but I have a feeling that aircraft will have some pretty heavy modifications done to the underside as time passes, while J-20 looks like a more finished product.

I just wonder how can PLA asses if this was indeed better or at par with F-22 or the Russian PAK-FA, of the F-35?

I don't exactly understand the question, are you asking how could the PLAAF compare this plane with the F-22/T-50/F-35, if it can at all?
If so, then I'd assume maybe espionage to get inside performance info or using their own engineers and super computers to maybe try and simulate how those aircraft would perform.
But considering they've only started flight testing of the J-20, it would be wiser to know how that plane performs first before comparing.
 
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Delbert

Junior Member
I don't exactly understand the question, are you asking how could the PLAAF compare this plane with the F-22/T-50/F-35, if it can at all?
If so, then I'd assume maybe espionage to get inside performance info or using their own engineers and super computers to maybe try and simulate how those aircraft would perform.
But considering they've only started flight testing of the J-20, it would be wiser to know how that plane performs first before comparing.

Yes, I am actually asking if it was comparable to F-22, F-35. etc in terms of performance.

Of course PLAAF must know how will it perform against its competitor... Otherwise why deploy a plane and put it into production if you know that your plane can't even win against your enemy? Or doesn't even have an edge.

I don't think espionage is a wise idea just for comparison of these planes. (For discussion sake) If PLAAF was to use espionage as a tool, why not just simply steal everything? and make something better out of it? rather than just knowing the specs of your competitor?
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Yes, I am actually asking if it was comparable to F-22, F-35. etc in terms of performance.

Of course PLAAF must know how will it perform against its competitor... Otherwise why deploy a plane and put it into production if you know that your plane can't even win against your enemy? Or doesn't even have an edge.

I don't think espionage is a wise idea just for comparison of these planes. (For discussion sake) If PLAAF was to use espionage as a tool, why not just simply steal everything? and make something better out of it? rather than just knowing the specs of your competitor?

Well, technically no one really knows how one design will fare against another until they've actually engaged in mock combat. However, China doesn't need the J-20 to be as good as the F-22, and it's not about the individual performance of the planes anyways. These platforms are ultimately mission and system oriented, and they need to be good enough to fulfill their mission, not necessary to be "better" than another plane, which is arbitrary anyways.

For example, the J-20 does not need to be better than the F-22 to take out multiplier assets that the F-22 would need to sustain mission capability. If the J-20 snuck behind enemy lines and took out critical base components, AWACs, or air tankers, it would cripple the F-22's capabilities without requiring a direct confrontation. In this case, the J-20 would only have to be better than the defences it must go up against.

That said, there's a possibility that the J-20 is designed to be an F-22 killer, but I doubt the PLAAF sees the need to dedicate a plane to that task when there will only be 187 F-22s in production (though I still hold out that they might restart production when the US budget situation gets resolved and the USAF needs certain capabilities that only the F-22 or a new design could fulfill).
 

Maggern

Junior Member
Yes, I am actually asking if it was comparable to F-22, F-35. etc in terms of performance.

Of course PLAAF must know how will it perform against its competitor... Otherwise why deploy a plane and put it into production if you know that your plane can't even win against your enemy? Or doesn't even have an edge.

I don't think espionage is a wise idea just for comparison of these planes. (For discussion sake) If PLAAF was to use espionage as a tool, why not just simply steal everything? and make something better out of it? rather than just knowing the specs of your competitor?

1. If your enemy builds something that is far more advanced than anything you could produce, would you stop producing hardware?

You produce something that satisfies the demands of your own armed forces, and has some of the capabilities your enemy has. I.e. even though China doesn't know every in and out of the F-22, they do know it has significant stealth ability, supercruise and all that other new generation stuff. Thus they try to make their own plane having similar abilities, and hoping that would be enough.

2. Knowing the capabilities of a fighter doesn't mean you know every detail of HOW that is accomplished. E.g. Simply having some hardware you bought doesn't mean you can easily produce it yourself. Espionage is all about collecting some pieces of information here and there and drawing the lines yourself. I'm not sure if I ever heard about an espionage mission where someone acquired the complete knowhow of the target.
 

delft

Brigadier
Yes, I am actually asking if it was comparable to F-22, F-35. etc in terms of performance.

Of course PLAAF must know how will it perform against its competitor... Otherwise why deploy a plane and put it into production if you know that your plane can't even win against your enemy? Or doesn't even have an edge.

I don't think espionage is a wise idea just for comparison of these planes. (For discussion sake) If PLAAF was to use espionage as a tool, why not just simply steal everything? and make something better out of it? rather than just knowing the specs of your competitor?
You can't steal the the technology base of another country. Too much is in the heads of people and in the very many subcontracting firms, while your own technology base wouldn't be developed that way. And the stolen systems will be optimized for the situation of another country. So stealing everything is a bad idea.
US members of Congress tend to think that everyone is out to steal US technology, but that's because they are lawyers, not engineers.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Will this just be a technology demonstrator? Or a prototype for a final plane?

I just wonder how can PLA asses if this was indeed better or at par with F-22 or the Russian PAK-FA, of the F-35?

Enough with all this tech demonstrator nonsense.

The only people who ever suggested this was anything but a prototype were people who have a massive bias and axe to grind against China and were trying desperately to find any way to belittle the J20 after their little fantasy world came crashing down around them as they were forced to accept the J20 was real instead of some fanboy PS work.
 

Delbert

Junior Member
Enough with all this tech demonstrator nonsense.

The only people who ever suggested this was anything but a prototype were people who have a massive bias and axe to grind against China and were trying desperately to find any way to belittle the J20 after their little fantasy world came crashing down around them as they were forced to accept the J20 was real instead of some fanboy PS work.

What are you talking about? I just wanted to ask some questions if those are possible.

To be honest with you I wanted China to produce a new generation military hardware that is capable of crushing the latest US military hardware. To eliminate the US military and technological dominance.. and I just want to know if that can be made possible with the J-20.

If not.. Then perhaps I would have to wait for another decade til China produces a new generation plane.

I am a Chinese myself! Though living on another country! Get it???
 
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