J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

kwaigonegin said:

What?!? I have to respectfully disagree with you there. Japan perhaps was viewed as an economic threat but certainly not a military threat. While the US had thousands of warheads dialed to the former USSR in the 1980's and even now, I doubt they had many if any at all pointed at Tokyo etc...

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AssassinsMace said:

Yes, it is true. You don't remember all the books about Japan taking over the world fiction and non-fiction? There was a lot of paranoia of Japan especially in the 80s. Vincent Chin was beaten to death because two Detroit autoworkers who thought he was Japanese. A Japanese tourist in New Orleans looking for directions was shot and killed when he walked up to a house. It's irrelevant if Japan was actually a military threat. China doesn't have the capability to invade the US yet people think China can invade. There was a lot of fear of Japan, an ally of the US. And like I said politicians then proclaimed Japan more dangerous than the Sovet Union.

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MiG-29 said:

what a few loons do, does not mean is a policy of a government, i know people married to asians, like i said my mother`s brother, my uncle married a Chinese, so my cousins are half chinese, i consider my family very open, i have cousins married to nigerians, costaricans, americans, from all ethnicities, i have jewish as well christian family, family in Israel and Russia, so for me crazy people are every where, but it does not mean that is a state policy.

the US is an ally of Japan, however state policy is different to some actions of some people, i also have a good american friend who is half mexican, married to a Japanese, so tell me what is the difference of Paul Frank and my friend who happens to be 60 years old and married his wife in the 1970s?

the difference is they are individuals.

Now the US will develop a sixth generation fighter because Russia and China are developing 5th generation fighters.

Japan is developing the F-3 because China is developing the J-20.

That is state policy, the emergence of J-20 and the political disagreements between China and the West means state policies are taken to find a way to neutralize J-20

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airsuperiority said:

Another thing I feel would be the official construct of China as competitor and adversary. Japan, even if was "supposed" to be an "economic threat", was still considered an ally. As with China, they feel there's nothing in common other than threats of alien invasions and terrorism.

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If what you've said is true, then that proves me right on the fears of Asian threat.

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Cant we all just agree that there are state policies of seeing China as competitor and adversary, but also there are a blend of good and bad apples? And that racism amongst the population exists? And that racism amongst the population against a specific group had occurred and should be recognized, but also the same time that things do change, people do move forward, and that there are good and bad people, so we shan't say everyone's evil because of a specific group or specific timeframe? And lastly, racism comes from xenophobic fears due to resource competition, outgroup-ingroup mentality, conformity, and narrow-mindedness? They are at various levels for everyone, but it doesn't mean everyone is evil and a dangerous racist. Some people go through this stage and eventually becomes a better person, and some people have good nature but simply can't get their mind to accept certain things at a certain time neither. Neither dictates the person as evil yet; it's just when they begin to act in ways that attacks the other group when then that be unnecessary and dangerous. This includes very overt actions which is meant to crush the minority and damage/disrespect their existence. Even Nazi, Rwandan, and Imperial Japanese soldiers who committed the atrocities were brainwashed due to a mixture of conformity by authority and institutional socialization of their targets as inferior and subhuman. Thus the victims technically includes many of these soldiers too, believe it or not. The top brass are often the root of the cause.

Trust me, I learned this in 2nd year social psychology

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airsuperiority said:

Another thing I feel would be the official construct of China as competitor and adversary. Japan, even if was "supposed" to be an "economic threat", was still considered an ally. As with China, they feel there's nothing in common other than threats of alien invasions and terrorism.

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Guys, you've all made a convincing argument, it all depends on "perspective", and perspective is a big word for point of view. In other words from what point are you viewing this concern, all of us who are capable, are building defensive capability, if we can't build it we buy it, and if we can't buy it we "borrow it". It really all come down to intent, what are your intentions. From an American perspective, we are always the bad guys, we are alway criticized, even by our allies, yes we are at time arrogant, bragging that we are the worlds only super-power in the 90s was and is stupid.

If what you've said is true, then that proves me right on the fears of Asian threat.

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Air Force Brat said:

The United States is a very open society, unlike the societies of our former adversaries during the cold war, our concern is political, people, who's governments make threatening statements should not be surprised when informed citizens of that nation that is threatened view them with suspicion. In exchanging these points of view on a military forum, on the J-20 thread it is fair to ask ourselves, will this war tool be used for aggressive or defensive purposes or both, so we look to history for a hint or guide. The recent trade and exchanges with our former adversaries do encourage understanding, respect, and even partnership. That partnership should be directed at peacefull mutual respect for one another, we are all prejudice, we are all concerned, we are all men who are prone to failure. It does require intent to change, to take risks on friends, I personally am fine with it if we're both armed, it does tend to encourage politeness, and if my friend goes for his gun, I will do my best to give him a fine Christian funeral! Of course, I am speaking toungue in cheeck, with a big smile on my face, and yes I really would rather be your friend. I am pleased that parity seems to have worked, I for one rather enjoy the arms race, seems to have kept us out of major trouble so far, and I am absolutely thrilled to hear your perspective, yes I read all your posts, and even if I don't agree, I try to move around next to you and look at it from "your point of view". May we all die free men, in free countrys, surrounded by our friends, and into the arms of a loving God!

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airsuperiority said:

Another thing I feel would be the official construct of China as competitor and adversary. Japan, even if was "supposed" to be an "economic threat", was still considered an ally. As with China, they feel there's nothing in common other than threats of alien invasions and terrorism.

---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:06 PM ----------



If what you've said is true, then that proves me right on the fears of Asian threat.

---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------




Cant we all just agree that there are state policies of seeing China as competitor and adversary, but also there are a blend of good and bad apples? And that racism amongst the population exists? And that racism amongst the population against a specific group had occurred and should be recognized, but also the same time that things do change, people do move forward, and that there are good and bad people, so we shan't say everyone's evil because of a specific group or specific timeframe? And lastly, racism comes from xenophobic fears due to resource competition, outgroup-ingroup mentality, conformity, and narrow-mindedness? They are at various levels for everyone, but it doesn't mean everyone is evil and a dangerous racist. Some people go through this stage and eventually becomes a better person, and some people have good nature but simply can't get their mind to accept certain things at a certain time neither. Neither dictates the person as evil yet; it's just when they begin to act in ways that attacks the other group when then that be unnecessary and dangerous. This includes very overt actions which is meant to crush the minority and damage/disrespect their existence. Even Nazi, Rwandan, and Imperial Japanese soldiers who committed the atrocities were brainwashed due to a mixture of conformity by authority and institutional socialization of their targets as inferior and subhuman. Thus the victims technically includes many of these soldiers too, believe it or not. The top brass are often the root of the cause.

Trust me, I learned this in 2nd year social psychology

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MiG-29 said:

well to stay on topic, to understand why the J-20 is viewed with some fear or concern by the west, you hve to consider two aspects

Economic and historical aspects for one side and technical for the other.
As the thread is based upon news and the impact they have, you can guess the most important aspect of this thread, is to focus on the technical aspects and basicly overview and overlook the other aspect, the economical and historical.

As such i would say in Asia, the F-3 is being designed with the T-50 and J-20 in mind, since it is too much expeculation about if the J-20 is a striker or a air superiority, (it might be both) its time frame seems to be going to the 2nd prototype getting ready.

So from the technical perspective, the new 5th generation fighters are supposed to do the strike and fighter role as well.
T-50 for example is going to do 3 roles, striker, fighter and recce, some russian analysts say the T-50 might need a compagnion as the F-22 has the F-35.

So i know many here think the J-20 is supposedly to be an air superiority, but if the aspects of a true fighter of the fifth generation are defined multi-purpose is the most important aspect.

On the F-35 the americans have lower its technical capabilities to allow for its exportability.

However do not forget that weapons are tools of policies, they are designed to attack and defend economic interests.

An air superiority is supposed to destroy bombers and fighters to avoid the enemy the ability to destroy facilities and instalations that might change policies.

An J-20 is not different is a machine of war, not a peaceful tool, its ultimate purpose is destroy and kill if needed, there is nothing beautiful of the purpose of war in a weapon.

War is the ultimate state of dishumanization, when humans decide who lives and who does not, total war exemplifies that.
From the technical aspect yes J-20 is beautiful, from the technical one yes is a wonderful master piece of human ingenuity, but its purpose of war and as such it impacts the policies of the nations and the defence strategies of entire countries.

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