J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

Centrist said:

I think it is safe to say that 2000 was the static test-bed, 2001 is powered by painted AL-31F engines. I assume that 2002 will be powered by a standard WS-10; I do not believe that the WS-10G is ready...but what do I know?

Maybe 2003 or 2004 will have WS-10G.

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I'm still quite uncertain as to whether the silver nozzle engines are Al-31 -- yes we have Maya's backing but it must be different to standard al-31 somehow. I mean one doesn't just paint over nozzles, and if we accept that, you have to wonder why they would change the nozzles.
I am only willing to say this 2002 is probably the second flying prototype.
There may be a 2000 somewhere as static test frame (which would be new for CAC), and I also believe there is the second 2001 (the one we saw equipped with standard al-31s) which was used for taxi/ground testing like t-50KNS.
The situation with the j20 prototypes for me is similar to WS-10 variants. You know there is definitely more than one type around, but you have no idea how many

Bltizo said:

I'm still quite uncertain as to whether the silver nozzle engines are Al-31 -- yes we have Maya's backing but it must be different to standard al-31 somehow. I mean one doesn't just paint over nozzles, and if we accept that, you have to wonder why they would change the nozzles.
I am only willing to say this 2002 is probably the second flying prototype.
There may be a 2000 somewhere as static test frame (which would be new for CAC), and I also believe there is the second 2001 (the one we saw equipped with standard al-31s) which was used for taxi/ground testing like t-50KNS.
The situation with the j20 prototypes for me is similar to WS-10 variants. You know there is definitely more than one type around, but you have no idea how many

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I don't think it's paint.

latenlazy said:

I don't think it's paint.

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Of course it isn't paint. It is coated somehow. Personally, I used to believe that the 2001 was powered by a modified WS-10. But if you count the nozzle pedals and look at their dimensions, they look exactly like the AL-31F, albeit silver in color.

Also, all of China's prototypes in recent years have flown on Russian engines first, the J-15, J-10B most notably, despite the WS-10 being in mass production. It seems unlikely that the J-20 would break this tradition. I think the engines are "painted" simply for show. After all, the J-20 is clearly meant to be seen in the open by other world powers as a symbol of China's rising military and technological preeminence, but this would be marred by the ugly/easily recognizable Russian engine nozzles.

If you just accept that the engines are AL-31F with modified or coated nozzles, you eliminate the need for a mysterious and out-of-character "second 2001" prototype, which admittedly, did a week of taxi flights before disappearing into a dark abyss. Occam's razor, the simplest answer is probably correct.

Even if we take in occam's razor, is changing the engine (or engine nozzles) from a week of taxi flights to now test flights the simple answer?
Or that there are just two 2001 prototypes?

Really, the pursuit to determine how many J-20 prototypes exist is a futile mission imo.

And the silver nozzle does seem to have physical differences between Al-31 (note the extra "strip" between each petal on the silver nozzles), it isn't just a coating (although I'm sure we can point to things for and against the nozzles being structurally identical.)
If we believe there to be only one 2001 prototype, the question will be why would they want to modify or change the nozzle in the first place?

the strip is an illusion caused by the 'paint', it is also there on the black nozzle because geometrically they are very similar, or as one should put it, the same

it is probably a coat, or perhaps nozzle petal/elements made from different material

also, very devilish of CAC to hide 2002's butt so we have to track back and talk about 2001's

paintgun said:

the strip is an illusion caused by the 'paint', it is also there on the black nozzle because geometrically they are very similar, or as one should put it, the same

it is probably a coat, or perhaps nozzle petal/elements made from different material

also, very devilish of CAC to hide 2002's butt so we have to track back and talk about 2001's

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Roger that.

Air Force Brat said:

the second from the right looks like Jackie Chan?
Are there any vids with speed brakes?

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Second from right is Lei Qiang, chief test pilot of J10.

Video of the speed brake:

Or GIF

Hey ... no news about our new friend "2002" during the last two days ???

Come on ... some nice & clear shots of that bird would really make my day.

Deino

They don't want tea session with authorities..... Lol.

Bltizo said:

Even if we take in occam's razor, is changing the engine (or engine nozzles) from a week of taxi flights to now test flights the simple answer?
Or that there are just two 2001 prototypes?

Really, the pursuit to determine how many J-20 prototypes exist is a futile mission imo.

And the silver nozzle does seem to have physical differences between Al-31 (note the extra "strip" between each petal on the silver nozzles), it isn't just a coating (although I'm sure we can point to things for and against the nozzles being structurally identical.)
If we believe there to be only one 2001 prototype, the question will be why would they want to modify or change the nozzle in the first place?

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Imo, I'd say it's quite certain there are multiple engines being tested on. I really don't believe they'll paint,then repaint, then paint the nozzles for PR reasons. That's just plain stupid.(Why'd you go care about wasting time on such trivial paint jobs?)
Second, if we incorporate "intel" others have suggested, then perhaps 2001 really is just for basic flights, therefore using AL-31F for such trials are acceptable. Maybe this can also be why we have yet to see any very very fancy maneuvers (assuming they weren't conducted in the clouds)
This may also explain why the plane uses round nozzles.
Maybe we really will see 2005 with WS-15?