J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

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Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
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Actually George getting down to brass tacks, the other ATF prototype the YF-23 had ruddervators or more precisely rudderlators, an all flying tail. This was a premier feature on an all time general aviation favorite, the Beechcraft Bonanza of 1947. I'm quite sure the German's and maybe the Italian,s had something similar. Any way its apparent that the flight control system seems to be working well on the J-20, and it will be interesting when they do expand the flight envelope to see how all these things work together in the "real world". Maybe some smart people have learned from some of our mistakes? Great pictures guys, in the first pic is that vertical shot high enery with speed or low energy hangin on the pipe? Looks like Mig beat me to the draw on the YF-23.
 
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Quickie

Quickie

Colonel
MiG-29 said:
The US already made an all moving tail it is called SR-71 and other is F-117, Russia is T-50
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T-50's tail is only slightly canted and is too near to the aircraft's CG, unlike the J-20's highly canted (sideways and back) tail which is purposefully situated far aft of the aircraft for a more effective moment of arm action. The T-50 has the conventional horizontal stabilizers for elevators.

MiG-29 said:
.... all moving rudders are old, the 1964 Sr-71 used them。 F-117 did use them and it is a 1981 jet, so it is not something new, it is as old as blackbird
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Lol, you should continue saying canards are very old technology, the first flying aircraft has canards.
 
Curious George

Curious George

New Member
MiG-29 said:
the YF-23 has all moving tails

The americans know the advantages already of all moving vertical tails as the conventional tails, they started with A-12, F-117, YF-23 but settled on F-22 for hinged rudder tails
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I had a look at the video, and it seems the YF-23's tails don't seem to be as sturdy or as "movable" as the J-20's tail. So I still say if the US comes up with a new plane that has sturdy and "ultra-movable" canted tails, then they'd have "copied" it from China. But if they came up with weak looking, barely-movable canted tails, then they must have taken that from the YF-23 instead.
 
MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Curious George said:
I had a look at the video, and it seems the YF-23's tails don't seem to be as sturdy or as "movable" as the J-20's tail. So I still say if the US comes up with a new plane that has sturdy and "ultra-movable" canted tails, then they'd have "copied" it from China. But if they came up with weak looking, barely-movable canted tails, then they must have taken that from the YF-23 instead.
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you would be surprised to know that the americans have done research into all the J-20 aerodynamics, in fact the Xb-70 had canards, had an all moving vertical tail back in the early 1960s[video=youtube;_wsPLthWrr8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wsPLthWrr8[/video]

Even MiG-1.44 was not new to them they did research in that direction long time ago in the 1980s, France did the same

ACX-17.jpg


My point was no one absolutely no one can say we created all the technology, we all humans share and copy technology, that is our nature.
 
broadsword

broadsword

Brigadier
MiG-29 said:
My point was no one absolutely no one can say we created all the technology, we all humans share and copy technology, that is our nature.
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When you're dealing with shapes, especially aerodynamics, the laws of physics dictate certain shapes and forms which are generic that you end up if you target a certain function. It does not need copying even though it looks like it.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
The americans know the advantages already of all moving vertical tails as the conventional tails, they started with A-12, F-117, YF-23 but settled on F-22 for hinged rudder tails[/QUOTE]

Thanks for sharing that Mig, especially enjoyed Paul's anecdotal comments and hearing him quote the old engineering adage, "if it looks good it will fly good" I have seen this video before. I actually fired up the MSFS as I happen to have a YF-23 that I added to the acceleration pac for FSX. Its always interesting to hear first hand from the test pilots their initial impressions of aircraft, but pilots can be like Daddy's, and I'm sure the F-35 pilots feel the same as do the J-20 pilots. If someone askeed the J-20 pilot how it flew, we wouldn't need a translator, we could just watch his face I'm quite certain he would be smiling and making hand gestures telling how he ran off and left the chase aircraft.
 
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