J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

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Hyperwarp

Captain
I think I'm quickly turning into your internet groupie.

Though, I do wonder...how do you know this?

Remember originally the WS-10 was said to be at 130kN. maya & Pinko IIRC stated it was about 130kn (13200kgf). But then all the reliability issues popped when the 1st batch of J-11B started flying. I heard rumors about MTBO ranging between 50 - 70 (how good is that?). Now the specs are 125kN, MTBO 500+???. Rumor wise, the J-10B prototype has a WS-10B rated @ 132kn.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
If China can improve on AL 31F why not Taihang Well they practically have to manufacturer their own component to get this longer service life.Read this Jane report

ASIA PACIFIC
Date Posted: 08-Sep-2010

Jane's Defence Weekly


China makes modifications to Russian Salyut AL-31F jet engine

Reuben F Johnson JDW Correspondent - Kiev

Key Points
The PLAAF has developed its own upgrade for the Russian-made Salyut AL-31F jet engine

The development demonstrates that the Chinese have achieved near autonomy in supporting their fighters' Russian-made engines


The Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has developed its own service life extension modifications for the Russian-made Salyut AL-31F engine, a Moscow-based defence and foreign policy think-tank has reported.

The modifications to the AL-31F/FN P.2 series engine increase its operational limits by more than 65 per cent - from 900 to 1,500 flight hours, according to the privately owned Centre for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST).


The AL-31F engine is the powerplant for several types of aircraft in the PLAAF inventory: the Sukhoi Su-27 (which is also licence-produced at the Shenyang Aircraft Works as the J-11), the Su-30MKK and the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation J-10. The AL-31FN is a special derivative of the original AL-31F design that was developed by the Salyut plant in Moscow for a single-engine application to be fitted to the J-10.

The service life modifications were reportedly developed at the PLAAF Overhaul Plant Number 5719. The key to the service life extension is a specific set of improved, Chinese-made components that are part of what is described as a "re-manufacturing kit" that is introduced during the process of a full-scale remanufacturing and overhaul process.

The plant is located near the city of Chengdu in Sichuan province, employs 2,000 personnel and is reported to be a model of innovation within the PLAAF's network of repair plants. During the past several years the facility has initiated 63 different research and development programmes and has been awarded more than 20 state prizes for achievements in technological innovation. In the same time period, the plant's assets have more than doubled from CNY1.1 billion (USD147.2 million) in 2004 to CNY2.9 billion today.

The plant's officials credit the success of their overhaul process to a decision taken in 2004, when some of the first AL-31F engines were presented to the plant by the PLAAF for overhaul. A decision was taken, according to the Chinese news sources originally cited, to completely reorganise the overhaul process. This streamlining of the overhaul disassembly and servicing line resulted in a 27.3 per cent decrease in the time required to complete an overhaul and increased the plant's production capacity by 60 per cent.

This level of improvement in the engine's design demonstrates that the Chinese have achieved near autonomy in the support of these Russian-made engines. Russian specialists who spoke to Jane's state that this is "another example of how the technology sold to the Chinese during the 1990s has now been fully assimilated by them. It is only a matter of time before the engines that China produces will be as good as or better than anything designed here in Russia".

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MwRYum

Major
I don't know about this one, but if to "take it with a pint of salt", the amount of salt intake might exceed the healthy daily dose with this one...

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20110316092010289.jpg


It said that: Jiangnan Valve Co. LTD have accomplished the feat of delivering Project 2920 - China's first domestically made large caliber pressure regulating valve. It's said that such valve a key component for high-speed wind tunnel, and in this case, "accomplished Mach-3 tests for J-20".

The announcement was made on 16/03/2011.

Ok...does that mean the Project 718 airframe was rated for maximum Mach-3? Or there're other implications with this?

EDIT: with a little bit more digging, it seems that they completed this project as early as 2009

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20100729161036127.jpg


This was 05/06/2009

So that makes the first announcement was the typical "we have a hand in this feat" kind of advertisement. So, that means Project 718 entered high-speed wind tunnel testing phase as early as late 2009...right?
 
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paintgun

Senior Member
not sure how Mach 3 is going to be friendly with all those stealth materials and sealants
J-20 is a Mach 2 airframe, they just want to test it in Mach 3 conditions

note on the domestic accomplishment praise, means such machine is readily available and used outside of China for high speed wind tunnels
 

flateric

Junior Member
the fact remains that Al-31 caused numerous J-10s to crash

There have been four known crashes of the J-10 to date. The first crash was of a prototype combat aircraft during testing in 1998 with the most likely cause cited as failure of the fly-by-wire flight control system.[9]

In 2007, a second crash occurred near Guilin involving a J-10 of the PLAAF's 2nd Division.

A third crash occurred in August 2009 when pilot Meng Fansheng was forced to eject from his aircraft when the aircraft suffered an abrupt loss of engine power. An official investigation by the PLAAF also echoed that the crash was the result of the failure of the AL-31F engine on the aircraft.[citation needed]

A fourth crash involving an active duty aircraft occurred on April 22, 2010, killing the commander of the 9th Division. An attempted government cover up failed when the pilot's funeral gained prominence.[9] Official reports blamed pilot error.
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so 'numerous' is "one"? or two if we will guess that 2007 crash was caused by engine mishap?

known crash dates give you additional food for thoughts
 

paintgun

Senior Member
EDIT: with a little bit more digging, it seems that they completed this project as early as 2009

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20100729161036127.jpg


This was 05/06/2009

So that makes the first announcement was the typical "we have a hand in this feat" kind of advertisement. So, that means Project 718 entered high-speed wind tunnel testing phase as early as late 2009...right?

much earlier than that i think, if anything the way they do things, they already finished wind tunnel testings to announce this success

now any of you in China, go ask these gentlemen some questions about the J-20 :D
 

flateric

Junior Member
Read this Jane report

Jane's Defence Weekly, oh. Didn't Reuben F Johnson reporting from Kiev told us at the end of 2010 that J-20 uses 'Russian 117S' engines while citing his 'uncohfirmed sources'? I was such a 'source' to Jane's couple of times. God only knows what khuynya they extracts from another beer talk at airshow.
 

MwRYum

Major
not sure how Mach 3 is going to be friendly with all those stealth materials and sealants
J-20 is a Mach 2 airframe, they just want to test it in Mach 3 conditions

note on the domestic accomplishment praise, means such machine is readily available and used outside of China for high speed wind tunnels

Or, "stress test" is the better word?

And, about the machinery, think it's more like "if you can't make it yourselves, see if you can procure the components abroad"...in this case, nobody would sell to China so they gotta DIY.

As a side dish: by the various other announcements this company specialized on special valves (duh!), stuff like isolation valves use in nuclear power stations and nuclear submarines...

"that's fairy tale, dear"(c)

I just quote what I saw/read, doesn't mean I believe in anything.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Jane's Defence Weekly, oh. Didn't Reuben F Johnson reporting from Kiev told us at the end of 2010 that J-20 uses 'Russian 117S' engines while citing his 'uncohfirmed sources'? I was such a 'source' to Jane's couple of times. God only knows what khuynya they extracts from another beer talk at airshow.

Are you saying you are the source of this news and now you denounce this news?. .Anybody can say I am the source of this or that news on internet
Yes you can believe anything you want but it doesn't change the fact !

For your information the director of this maintenance depot has been given public merit award
 
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