tanlixiang28776
Junior Member
Are we basing the effectiveness of RAM on shininess now?
J-20... The New Generation Fighter II
- Thread starter Asymptote
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airsuperiority
Captain
if this is true, i suggest covering your car in shit so radar cops cant catch u speeding
if non-shiny = RAM effective, then im quite sure shit is the most economical, environmentally, and most effective material -- it simply does not reflect. it's also widely available too
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just supporting your claim that basing RAM effectiveness on glossy factor is ridiculous
Martian
Senior Member
In combat: DR 184 can detect F-22/J-20 at 13.5 km, T-50 at 178 km, Rafale at 414 km
Under battle conditions, the EADS DR 184 radar can detect a F-22/J-20 at 13.5 km, Russian T-50 at 178 km, and a French Rafale at 414 km.
The calculations for the detection ranges of the F-22/J-20 and Russian T-50 remain unchanged because they have internal weapon bays. However, during combat, the French Rafale will have to carry air-to-air missiles under its external pylons and this will dramatically increase its RCS.
Assuming that the French Rafale carries four air-to-air missiles into combat, the Rafale's RCS will increase from 1 m2 to 88.44 m2. This translates into a detection range at 414 km by the EADS DR 184 radar.
My calculations:
From GlobalSecurity, we know that the RCS of a "clean" French Rafale is 1 m2. We know from tests (see Figure 7 below) conducted by Brazil that a decommissioned air-to-air missile has an approximate RCS of 21.86 m2.
[sub-calculation:
From Figure 7, an air-to-air missile has a RCS of approximately 12 dBm2.
12 dBm2 x (25.5 m2/14 dBm2) = 21.86 m2 RCS (See conversion factor at ]
A clean French Rafale's 1 m2 RCS + 4 air-to-air missiles (e.g. each with a RCS of 21.86 m2) = 1 m2 + 87.44 m2 = 88.44 m2 RCS for armed French Rafale
The fourth-root of 88.44 is 3.067. The detection range by the EADS DR 184 radar is 3.067 * 135 km = 414 km.
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The French Rafale is an old design and the glaring non-stealth features jump out at you. Firstly, the cockpit canopy has a metal frame. Secondly, there is a noticeable gap between the air-inlets and the fuselage. Both of these defects are also present on the Russian T-50. Thirdly, the Rafale's nose is conical (not shaped) and there is no chine line. Fourthly, the external refueling probe is not stealthy. Fifthly, a single vertical tail is not a good design for side-aspect stealth. Finally, missiles hanging from external pylons negate any partial stealth in the Rafale's design (e.g. Why bother hiding 90% of the engine compressor blades? You're not stealthy with a weapons load).
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Under battle conditions, the EADS DR 184 radar can detect a F-22/J-20 at 13.5 km, Russian T-50 at 178 km, and a French Rafale at 414 km.
The calculations for the detection ranges of the F-22/J-20 and Russian T-50 remain unchanged because they have internal weapon bays. However, during combat, the French Rafale will have to carry air-to-air missiles under its external pylons and this will dramatically increase its RCS.
Assuming that the French Rafale carries four air-to-air missiles into combat, the Rafale's RCS will increase from 1 m2 to 88.44 m2. This translates into a detection range at 414 km by the EADS DR 184 radar.
My calculations:
From GlobalSecurity, we know that the RCS of a "clean" French Rafale is 1 m2. We know from tests (see Figure 7 below) conducted by Brazil that a decommissioned air-to-air missile has an approximate RCS of 21.86 m2.
[sub-calculation:
From Figure 7, an air-to-air missile has a RCS of approximately 12 dBm2.
12 dBm2 x (25.5 m2/14 dBm2) = 21.86 m2 RCS (See conversion factor at ]
A clean French Rafale's 1 m2 RCS + 4 air-to-air missiles (e.g. each with a RCS of 21.86 m2) = 1 m2 + 87.44 m2 = 88.44 m2 RCS for armed French Rafale
The fourth-root of 88.44 is 3.067. The detection range by the EADS DR 184 radar is 3.067 * 135 km = 414 km.
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The French Rafale is an old design and the glaring non-stealth features jump out at you. Firstly, the cockpit canopy has a metal frame. Secondly, there is a noticeable gap between the air-inlets and the fuselage. Both of these defects are also present on the Russian T-50. Thirdly, the Rafale's nose is conical (not shaped) and there is no chine line. Fourthly, the external refueling probe is not stealthy. Fifthly, a single vertical tail is not a good design for side-aspect stealth. Finally, missiles hanging from external pylons negate any partial stealth in the Rafale's design (e.g. Why bother hiding 90% of the engine compressor blades? You're not stealthy with a weapons load).
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There was this picture that shows the two of them together, but it wasn't high quality:
There was this picture that shows the two of them together, but it wasn't high quality:
That's because those are two separate images pasted together.
I have the originals of both, lol.
tanlixiang28776
Junior Member
Don't expect anything solid
Busted! LOL!that's because those are two separate images pasted together.
i have the originals of both, lol.
FarkTypeSoldier
Junior Member
»Ø¸´: Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II
There is a source called ''light''. When light hit onto a surface, different light from different timing of the day causes a surface to be reflective even on the same surface. I am not saying the J-20 has the same RAM as F-22 but your question can be answered by light source.
Again, its light source, and again if the picture is intended to be publicize by USAF, then the F-22 must have to be polished to have the 'look' for publicity. I think the surface is not shiny but reflective.
There is a source called ''light''. When light hit onto a surface, different light from different timing of the day causes a surface to be reflective even on the same surface. I am not saying the J-20 has the same RAM as F-22 but your question can be answered by light source.
Again, its light source, and again if the picture is intended to be publicize by USAF, then the F-22 must have to be polished to have the 'look' for publicity. I think the surface is not shiny but reflective.
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