J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

Phead128 said:

Would it be cost effective for WS-15 to be retrofitted on J-20s with WS-10C or AL-31FM2? What are the pros and cons. Would it be a modular replacement or need costly redesign?

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Whether it is possible for WS-15 to be refitted to existing J-20s powered by Al-31 or WS-10, would depend on a few things:
1. The extent of redesign that is needed or not needed for existing J-20 airframes to accommodate WS-15s. If they require significant airframe modification in the first place then it may not be feasible or cost effective.
2. The production scale of WS-15s. WS-15s will first take priority to power J-20A production, and it is possible that WS-15 variants will also power the initial production run of the PLA's 6th gen fighter as well, meaning if WS-15 can meet those higher priority demands and there are still WS-15 production capacity remaining, then giving them to re-engine existing J-20s could make sense.

All of which is to say, we don't really know what the detailed pros and the cons are, nor do we know if it would be a modular replacement or require significant airframe modification, so we can't really say if it would be viable at this stage.

A.Man said:

The J-20 was accompanied by B-1B in the sky over the East China Sea. The US military pilot was scared after seeing it? J-20 can really do it​

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Don't believe everything you read on the internet and post random articles without your own commentary please.

sndef888 said:

Will engine production be a bottleneck? I wonder how long it will take to ramp up production.

Someone said by 2025 so I guess it's another long hard 2 year wait

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The supply chain that the WS-15 will use is the same supply chain that supports the latest versions of the WS-10. When the WS-10 started production these supply chains didn’t exist or were very small scale and poorly managed. Nowadays they support the production of many hundreds of engines a year at very consistent and reliable quality. The industrial base is not the same as a decade ago so movement to large scale production shouldn’t take nearly as long or be as difficult.

What do you think? A friend of mine sent me this but IMO it looks too fishy!

IMO however it is not real ... The pedals look shorter than what we've seen so far from the WS-15 before and also very much different in shape.

sndef888 said:

Will engine production be a bottleneck? I wonder how long it will take to ramp up production.

Someone said by 2025 so I guess it's another long hard 2 year wait

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There is no technical bottleneck as per the official leak on engine progress a while back. But they need to streamline the supply chain process .

Commentary from Yankee regarding WS-15:


My take on credibility rank: Yankee > Shilao >>>> Ayi
key takeaways:

1. Yankee also confirmed that the number of J-20 has surpassed F-22.

1. 原计划作为过渡的歼20基本型，获得了远超预计的订货量。如今歼20基本型的生产数量早已超过了F-22，甚至可以说，如果不是涡扇15如约朝着刘大响院士2018年公布的“3-5年内定型”前进，那么仅歼20基本型的产量就将两倍于F-22都并非天方夜谭。而这样的生产规模，也促使歼20基本型在多个生产批次中不断得到改进——这一点，自然要优于在后冷战浪潮中“戛然而止”的F-22。
The J-20 basic model, which was originally planned as a transition, has received orders far in excess of expectations. Today, the production quantity of J-20 basic model has already exceeded that of F-22, and it can even be said that if the turbofan 15 is not moving towards the "finalization in 3-5 years" announced by academician Liu DaXiang in 2018 as promised, then the production of J-20 basic model alone will be twice as much as that of F-22 is not a fantasy. This scale of production will also lead to continuous improvement of the basic J-20 in multiple production batches - which is naturally better than the F-22 that "came to an abrupt end" in the post-Cold War wave.

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2. He seems to confirm that some of J-7 or J-8 units transform into J-20 unit.

2.也难怪空军最早几支接装歼20的部队，尽管飞机的机载软件也得到了升级，但在对抗中参观兄弟部队的新批次歼20时，面对外观远看上去几乎毫无区别的两批飞机，他们仍发出“我们的飞机有点落后了”的感慨——这在空军那些装备早期三代机、乃至二代机的兄弟部队听来简直是“凡尔赛”。
It is no wonder that the first few units of the Air Force to receive the J-20, although the aircraft's onboard software has also been upgraded, but when visiting the new batch of J-20 of units, facing the two batches of aircraft that look almost indistinguishable from each other, they still made the lament that "our aircraft are a bit behind" - this sounds like "show off" to those units of the Air Force that were equipped with early third-generation aircraft, or even second-generation aircraft.

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3. He knows something up there definitely I am sure of that. He is suggesting that 6th gen fighter could appear publicly earlier than H-20 and even NGAD.

3.如果新一代歼击机的真容比更受万众期待的下一代战略轰炸机更早出现，并不值得我们大惊小怪。真正值得期待的是，它能否领先于美国下一代战机NGAD亮相？如果这个梦想能成真，必将是比当年2001号验证机亮相更令世界震惊的标志性事件。
It would not be worth making a fuss if the real Next Generation Fighter appeared earlier than the more highly anticipated H-20. What is really worth waiting for is whether it will be unveiled ahead of the NGAD, the next-generation U.S. warplane. If this dream comes true, it will be a landmark event that will shock the world even more than the unveiling of the 2001 demonstrator.

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Kalec said:

1. Yankee also confirmed that the number of J-20 has surpassed F-22.

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Kalec said:

2. He seems to confirm that some of J-7 or J-8 units transform into J-20 unit.

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Excellent. That means we can be pretty sure that there should be at least 200 J-20s flying around right now. Screw 伏尔戈星图's BS on his "numbers".

In the meantime, I was kinda expecting that some of the J-7 or J-8 units would be transformed to UCAV units like what the US is attempting right now... But maybe I'm thinking too much or too early.

Kalec said:

3. He knows something up there definitely I am sure of that. He is suggesting that 6th gen fighter could appear publicly earlier than H-20 and even NGAD.

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Perhaps we should push back our estimation on the date of public unveiling of the H-20, then...

ACuriousPLAFan said:

Excellent. That means we can be pretty sure that there should be at least 200 J-20s flying around right now. Screw 伏尔戈星图's BS on his "numbers".

In the meantime, I was kinda expecting that some of the J-7 or J-8 units would be transformed to UCAV units like what the US is attempting right now... But maybe I'm thinking too much or too early.


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Perhaps we should push back our estimation on the date of public unveiling of the H-20, then...

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i don't think so.

China's 6th generation fighter jet is still in design phase. we might get some official hint/announcement about this program but unveiling before H-20 is not possible. this is what i believe. lets see

Kalec said:

3. He knows something up there definitely I am sure of that. He is suggesting that 6th gen fighter could appear publicly earlier than H-20 and even NGAD.

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I just hope this only means the H-20 program is going to be kept under wraps for longer but is actually further along in the development pipeline than the Next-Gen fighter.

sunnymaxi said:

i don't think so.

China's 6th generation fighter jet is still in design phase. we might get some official hint/announcement about this program but unveiling before H-20 is not possible. this is what i believe. lets see

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Well, in recent years fighter projects appearing out of thin air w/o any forewarning aren't exactly unprecedented.
It's unlikely, but it doesn't mean it can't happen.

Especially since new Chinese fighter is expected at least "by numbers" - there was no new ones since J-20&31, which is quite long(35 doesn't count). It's now over 10 years.

Excellent article by Yankee regarding the WS-15 flight that leaked a lot of interesting tidbits:
1. There are a lot of system redundancies on the J-20 to ensure that even if the plane has been damaged by enemy fire, it will retain limited ability to fly and fight. This makes maintenance of the earliest batch of J-20 very difficult. Later batches have significantly improved on this.
2. Later batch J-20 is a completely different beast from their earlier brethern. Despite the fact that the early batch has received software updates, after mock combat engagement with the new variant, pilots of older J-20 lament that their aircraft is a bit of a technological laggard.
3. J-20B (the twinseater) already incorporates most of the technologies used on J-20A, despite not having the target engine.
4. WS-15 will not only improve maneuverability and supersonic performance but also provide additional redundancies for onboard electronics, cooling system, and hydraulics.
5. Y-20 news -- one of Yankee's friends had the fortune of participating in a test mission on a Y-20 with WS-20 engines and claimed that he was able to get some good sleep onboard. Does this mean that the engine is a lot quieter?