No. Different. There was a short news story about it maybe two years back.
J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII
- Thread starter siegecrossbow
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Temperature and tensile strength are probably the bottlenecks they’d have to work on for such a design. Might be what CMC research will be geared towards. But this engine is still a good number of years away so we shall see.
The Second Golden Age. We are in the midst of the original Golden Age with the WS-10 and its WS-20 spin-off.
A lot of work seems to have occurred with J-20B to integrate WS-15, obviously some of those changes like the new nose are taking advantage of this opportunity rather than directly to do with new engines.
If the resulting plane is equipped with non-TVC WS-15 and at a future time still a TVC WS-15 (weather 2D or 3D) is readied for the plane, would that sort of engine change necessitate another big design overhaul or is it drop in change or somewhere in between, like going from AF-31 to WS-10?
If the resulting plane is equipped with non-TVC WS-15 and at a future time still a TVC WS-15 (weather 2D or 3D) is readied for the plane, would that sort of engine change necessitate another big design overhaul or is it drop in change or somewhere in between, like going from AF-31 to WS-10?
Did they make any changes to the intakes when going from AL-31 to WS-10? If they did I think someone would’ve done a comparison. We know that the thrust stats are different for sure.
Change of intake for engines is related to the airflow into the engine, not to the thrust which affects the tail section.
From a paper in 2010, "Key Technologies and Analysis of Aeroengine with Thrust to Weight Ratio Up to LeveI of 15", the 5th gen engine was expected to be 3D TVC. So I think China is not really interested in 2D TVC, not 5th gen nor WS-15. I can't think of anything that could change their mind since then.
Stealth considerations might change their minds, especially if they have ample thrust to take the thrust loss hit from a 2D nozzle and if they don’t need the extra control authority from a 3D nozzle. They may also be able to minimize some thrust loss with better design of the nozzle throat (ovular rather than rectangular geometry). But for now I don’t think we have a basis for concluding that they will go with a 2D TVC given how much work has been put into 3D TVC designs.
One thing you guys have to keep in mind is that PLAAF now has around six years of operational knowledge under its belt. It has used J-20s in trainings against 4th gen fighters, 4.5th gen fighters, and even each other during a variety of aerial combat exercises. It has used them in joint service training and collaboration with and against SAM from the army and navy. Hell it has even used them to intercept foreign combat aircraft and perform patrols in SCS and Taiwan Strait. After using the aircraft for so long, requirements are bound to change since pilots know what kind of plane they need.
The article was in 2010 when F-22 has been there for a long time, so they must be well aware of the stealth advantage that have to be realized by 2D TVC if there is one. Also the article was about 5th engine not WS-15, so it is hard to think that the developer is so pessimistic about their future engine in 20 years.
I would have agreed with your argument if the article was about WS-15.
That’s a good point, and it’s possible that they will move to a 2D TVC because of operational learning. But for now I don’t know if we have any evidence to support certainty that they will move to 2D nozzles. If this is the direction they’ll want to move I think we’ll need to wait for better evidence first before we can set clear expectations about where the nozzle design will go.
I think siegecrossbow made a good point about how real world use can influence different ideas about what to optimize for in future upgrades and designs. I think there’s a plausible basis for moving to 2D nozzles but plausible basis isn’t a guarantee of anything.
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