J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

Blitzo said:

I mostly jest, but I do think PLA watching as a whole is served much better where everyone is on the same page about expectations, so newcomers don’t come in with unrealistically high beliefs and end up always having the rest of us explain that yes, these slow, poor quality reveals with the most interesting details left out is the modus operandi and getting used to it faster will make it easier for themselves.

And to wear the impulse control as a badge of honour and a virtuous character trait for being in PLA watching as a whole.

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I would say for all the stalwarts, there should be a minor (ever ever so slight) upgrade in expectation. You are right, we are being spoilt, but I truly believe this is in line with the growing ability, capability, competence and confidence of the PLA.

It might not hurt to turn the dial just a whisker. After all, we still have H-20, JH-XX, a plethora of missiles (all types), FOBs/hypersonic bomber, 055A, 057, 09-V, 09-VI etc.

Dare I say it, the J-20 is old news, it’s upgrade and eventual mating with WS-15 has been telegraphed for quite some time now.

Shilao, Yankee and Ayi talked at length today about 205x.

They said yes, its intended for WS-15 and that's certainly a big part of it, but we shouldn't think of 205x as "for WS-15, for all of WS-15 and for nothing but WS-15".

In getting the plane ready for WS-15 the DSI and lot of the structure have to be changed, and seen as you're already making a change of this size it makes sense to then also add all the other stuff you've been meaning to add to this decade plus old design. In this regard they said those that suggest 205x is a single seat version of the twin seat 203x has a good point, as the twin seat is not a variant that has a "must be ready for PLAAF by X date" thing and thus can afford to be much more aggressive in incorporate all the latest tech. In this the twin seat is a lot like FC-31 1.0 and 2.0. 205x could well incorporate a lot of things that worked well on that twin seat.

A good analogy they used is with 200 J-20 produced the plane is in a similar situation to F-22 at the end of its production run. Had production continued could you imagine LM incorporate newer structural tech invented for F-35 back into F-22 in a block 40 and block 50 run? Make a lot of sense right? That's that 205x is doing.

They also hinted at these new techniques could allow 205x to go back to the original spec and add back the features that had to be cut. Specifically they hinted at a gun.

Yankee also said 204x was indeed skiped for being inauspicious

Also, they said that some of those watermark should be in German directed at @Deino

Temstar said:

...
Also, they said that some of those watermark should be in German directed at @Deino

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Well, in fact I'm not sure what to think about this!

From what I read lyman2003 is said to collect images and republishes them as "his own" ... In fact I indeed re-post then on FB and Twitter but at least whenever I find out, I mention the source and never post them as my own ones. However;I don't know Lyman in person.

Specifically they hinted at a gun.

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So they envision the j-20 getting into a dogfight wvr?
Wasn’t part of the guiding philosophy something like “if you’re getting into a dogfight you’ve already lost”?

alfreddango said:

So they envision the j-20 getting into a dogfight wvr?
Wasn’t part of the guiding philosophy something like “if you’re getting into a dogfight you’ve already lost”?

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The thing is, dogfights can still result from BVR combat, especially when terrain is involved. Once aircraft fire a couple BVR missiles, they generally dive low to avoid incoming BVR missiles, which leaves both aircraft at low alt. While they also continue firing their missiles at low alt, there is still a possibility of them getting closer and closer until they start using heat seekers. It’s certainly a possibility.

alfreddango said:

So they envision the j-20 getting into a dogfight wvr?
Wasn’t part of the guiding philosophy something like “if you’re getting into a dogfight you’ve already lost”?

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Now drones and loyal wingmen are here, guns could be useful.

Andy1974 said:

Now drones and loyal wingmen are here, guns could be useful.

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Something interesting from the Ukraine war is that a few times, fighters were scrambled to intercept suicide drones. This was often dangerous and carried a risk of loss to the fighters because the enemy could fire freely on them when they were in the air.

A J-20 would in the first place not be detectable nor would there be that many missiles that could pursue fighters doing such missions.

Admittedly, it is probably smarter to scramble J-10s for that purpose, but maybe the J-20 is now intended to have a gun in order to combat lower quality uav that wouldn't justify wasting an expensive missile. If so, it was most likely driven by direct experience shared by Russia in the ongoing war.

Biscuits said:

Something interesting from the Ukraine war is that a few times, fighters were scrambled to intercept suicide drones. This was often dangerous and carried a risk of loss to the fighters because the enemy could fire freely on them when they were in the air.

A J-20 would in the first place not be detectable nor would there be that many missiles that could pursue fighters doing such missions.

Admittedly, it is probably smarter to scramble J-10s for that purpose, but maybe the J-20 is now intended to have a gun in order to combat lower quality uav that wouldn't justify wasting an expensive missile. If so, it was most likely driven by direct experience shared by Russia in the ongoing war.

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Scrambling J20 to deal with drones doesn’t sound very practical or cost-effective (at least not in a high intensity war where its LO capabilities are more needed else where) imo, but I could be very wrong

Scchwerter_ said:

Scrambling J20 to deal with drones doesn’t sound very practical or cost-effective (at least not in a high intensity war where its LO capabilities are more needed else where) imo, but I could be very wrong

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I'm thinking there could be scenarios where a J-20 has to intercept incoming stealth fighters and on the way there are a couple of drones detected in the vicinity.

Or due to fog of war, ISR believes there are high value targets but when you get closer you see that it is drones.

The old assumption that the J-20 only needs to assassinate lone high value targets by dueling them may not anymore reflect reality, which is that there will be tons of random low value targets flying around.

Scchwerter_ said:

Scrambling J20 to deal with drones doesn’t sound very practical or cost-effective (at least not in a high intensity war where its LO capabilities are more needed else where) imo, but I could be very wrong

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I think sending J-10s would be a better option, especially those older J-10A variants that most likely wouldn't be send to the frontlines (where things are the hottest), but to guard the rear of the theater/interior regions of mainland China.

Hell, even J-8Bs and Su-27s could do the job just as well.