J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

Hendrik_2000 said:

Well now a days you don't need to actually fitted on the plane and fly it to test engine for prototype. Isn't there a news that say China built and environmental facility where they can simulate, Elevation, atmosphere condition like rain, wind etc. I guess they probably test the prototype there. And of course the final test has to be on the actual plane, it is intended to use

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You can’t test the effect of acceleration on Search element affecting engine performance as fuel feed in a static test chamber. It would also be hard to test the effects of airflow and intake turbulence on engine performance during various maneuvers with a static test chamber.

you can reduce the time required on a flying testbed, and therefore development cost and time frame, but you certainly can’t eliminate a flying testbed all together.

Hendrik_2000 said:

Well now a days you don't need to actually fitted on the plane and fly it to test engine for prototype. Isn't there a news that say China built and environmental facility where they can simulate, Elevation, atmosphere condition like rain, wind etc. I guess they probably test the prototype there. And of course the final test has to be on the actual plane, it is intended to use

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Indeed. But WS-15 has been a big tease for some time. I was trying to understand at what stage the WS-15 is at regarding development.

I get the picture now. Unless the recent test was a through and through success, I don't think we will see this engine equipped en mass in the second half of 2020s. Let's hope that all things go well.

Bltizo said:

I think you've crossed your wires.

Back in 2018 when there were rumours of a J-20 testing a "new engine" -- that was in reference to a J-20 testing a TVC WS-10 variant similar to the J-10B prototype that had been testing the TVC WS-10.
No one believes that J-20 at that time had already been testing WS-15.

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I think we can safely conclude from this illustration and the potato image of a J-20 with a TVC engine that the June Event at CAC wasn't nothing, there was a single engine test aboard a J-20 of either a WS-10 TVC or WS-15 (no need to add TVC since as far as we know there's no non-TVC variant of the WS-15). This has been more or less established, yes?

Now, adding the 2018 J-20 WS-10 TVC rumours, the probability that the June Event was a WS-15 increases since there would be no reason to repeat the same test three years apart. It would proceed to a two engine test if the PLAAF is interested in continuing with the WS-10 TVC program. Reasonable?

ZeEa5KPul said:

I think we can safely conclude from this illustration and the potato image of a J-20 with a TVC engine that the June Event at CAC wasn't nothing, there was a single engine test aboard a J-20 of either a WS-10 TVC or WS-15 (no need to add TVC since as far as we know there's no non-TVC variant of the WS-15). This has been more or less established, yes?

Now, adding the 2018 J-20 WS-10 TVC rumours, the probability that the June Event was a WS-15 increases since there would be no reason to repeat the same test three years apart. It would proceed to a two engine test if the PLAAF is interested in continuing with the WS-10 TVC program. Reasonable?

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From my POV, whether that particular photo from June was real or not has yet to be established. That said, regardless of whether that photo was real or not, I think there was enough noise to suggest that something had happened regarding J-20 and engines.

As for whether the June event (and today's developments) were related to J-20 and WS-15, given previous rumours from 2018 suggesting J-20 had tested TVC WS-10, sure the logic is not unsound, but let's also remember that our burden for proof for determining engine related matters is quite high.

Putting it another way, while something may have happened, and while it may be WS-15 related, I wouldn't get too excited until we get something clearer and more definitive, just because of how much confidence we want wrt engine related matters.

ZeEa5KPul said:

I think we can safely conclude from this illustration and the potato image of a J-20 with a TVC engine that the June Event at CAC wasn't nothing, there was a single engine test aboard a J-20 of either a WS-10 TVC or WS-15 (no need to add TVC since as far as we know there's no non-TVC variant of the WS-15). This has been more or less established, yes?

Now, adding the 2018 J-20 WS-10 TVC rumours, the probability that the June Event was a WS-15 increases since there would be no reason to repeat the same test three years apart. It would proceed to a two engine test if the PLAAF is interested in continuing with the WS-10 TVC program. Reasonable?

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If it is just one photo then I'd be suspicious of photoshop. But several wall climbers stationed in Chengdu (I won't share their identities here) have spotted and heard the same thing. If it is bogus then they'd be the first to discredit it.

I differ with @Deino on this one. I think that it is a WS-15 engine that has been testing on the J-20. The timeline makes sense with public information released (one academician claimed that WS-15 will test fly on the J-20 in 2020, engine blades delivered in 2019, etc.) and for me, it doesn't make sense to test just a single TVC nozzle on the final platform. They already have tested a similar nozzle extensively on the J-10C and if they want to test just the TVC on J-20, then they should've installed both engines instead of just one. Given that they have already installed WS-10C on production aircraft, they should be confident enough to test with both nozzles.

As for the identity of the aircraft in question, my personal belief is that it is one of the prototypes (not 2001/2002) that has been repurposed for engine testing. It has been fully painted and judging from the photos, it is no different from the AL-31 production J-20s we've seen. It has in fact retained one of the AL-31 engines from before. If it is a newly produced bird, one of the engines will be jagged nozzle WS-10.

james smith esq said:

The first time I heard an F-22, I couldn’t believe how much louder its engines were than F-18 and F-15 engines. In fact, the only reason I deduced that the aircraft was an F-22 was because I’d never heard a fighter jet so loud before. If there were an advanced method for using acoustic detection for aircraft, the F-22 would be considered anti-stealth.

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Actually acoustic detection was indeed used before radar was invented.

gelgoog said:

Actually acoustic detection was indeed used before radar was invented.

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Indeed, it was!

@Deino try finding the serial numbers on this! And yes, this is the alleged plane with one TVC nozzle.

gelgoog said:

Actually acoustic detection was indeed used before radar was invented.

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acoustic detection won’t give any warning of a supercruising intruder.

Richard Santos said:

acoustic detection won’t give any warning of a supercruising intruder.

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You must be joking right? Acoustic detection was being used before WW2.
Against propeller planes. Of course it would work against jets.
The problem is the technology is a lot less advanced than radar technology and has its own limitations.
Particularly in terms of range and accuracy.