Thanks; but as I read his post he did not say anything this might be WS-10-powered. Especially since this is clearly using AL-31FNs.
J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII
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Thanks; but as I read his post he did not say anything this might be WS-10-powered. Especially since this is clearly using AL-31FNs.
For a smaller G maneuver a supersonic aircraft covers far more distance than a subsonic one. The actual ability to evade a missile is a function of distance plus angular change, *not* a reduced function of G force alone. The goal of evading a missile is to beat its kinematics. That is first order a function of total energy difference between the two objects. Doing 9Gs at 200 mph won’t help you evade a missile better than doing 6Gs at 600 mph. You can try this thought experiment with a moving car. Is it easier to hit a car with a gun moving at 15 mph with a turn rate of 30 degrees a minute or a car moving at 60 mph with a turn rate of 10 degrees a minute?
Sustained supersonic dogfights are indeed rare, but *transient* acceleration into the supersonic regime is quite normal in dogfighting. Getting your speed and energy up as much as possible is how fighters evade missile locks, *and* also how they recover energy after sustained combat maneuvers bleed out their potential energy reserve. The same logic that says TVCs is bad because it bleeds energy and makes you a sitting duck (the incidental point here about TVC is wrong but the underlying logic of slowing down and being in a lower energy state is correct) is also why fighters don’t want to dwell in lower speed regimes if possible, and why being able to maneuver well at higher speed regimes is such a key advantage in dogfighting, even if you can do higher Gs at lower speeds.
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Also this statement "we know that J20 with WS10 is now in service" is only highly likely, but not proven. Oh could be when this gif is a recent one ans if it is not an older aircraft back at CAC for whatever reason.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
It is NOT GIF IT IS VIDEO! And you cannot edit or photoshop video go previous page
The analogy you're using is wrong, because when you're thinking of it like cars with guns, the relative motion of the two objects is tremendously different to the extent it's like tracking a car with a flashlight, the impact is instantaneous. With missiles it's not like that, the missile might be moving 5-10 times faster than the aircraft, but it's still in the process of chasing.
A better analogy might be pikemen vs elephants, or a matador vs a bull. In both cases, the latter, chasing object is much faster than the former. But the former is extremely agile and can change direction very quickly, which allows it to just sidestep.
Let us say, however, we're looking at a plane being chased by a missile. The plane isn't as maneuverable as a helicopter (helicopters beat planes in guns-only dogfights), but it's maneuverable. It's tracing a path, and at the very last moment, it's executing a 9G or 11G maneuver to attempt to dodge the missile. At this point, the missile, watching the plane attempt to dodge, can have an agility of 9G x relative speed and repeat the maneuver itself, which ends up being a 9G x relative speed maneuver. Then the missile still manages to hit.
But again; how does this prove it to be a WS-10-powered one or where did LKJ86 say it is one?
Yes, this gif - in fact that's wht he posted first - and video is too blurred to identify anything besides that it is a grey J-20 spotted at CAC which appears to have serial numbers applied. Everything else is speculative. And also again as I noted so often, the assumption it COULD be a WS-10C-powered depends on several conditions:
1. it must be a most recent video since only then it COULD be a new-production J-20 which then most likely has the new powerplant fitted.
2. it must be excluded that it is not a regular older J-20 which is back at CAC for whatever reason.
Only then it COULD be a new and at least IMO the images are of a too-low quality to be sure. Ergo: We are far away from your claimed " we know that J20 with WS10 is now in service".
Are you sure LKJ86 and 燃烧的哈尔科夫 (name is the picture, the guy who posted the psed we-20 few days ago) are the same person?
The key point I’m making is that a plane doing 6Gs at supersonic speeds is going to have a much greater change in spatial position than a plane doing 9Gs at subsonic speeds. Either way, the determinant for whether a plane can dodge said missile is a function of two things, 1) whether you can escape the missile’s line of sight, 2) whether you can execute a maneuver or a combination of maneuvers that the missile does not have enough energy left to maintain intercept. In both cases having higher energy is better than lower energy, and having higher supersonic maneuverability enables much more effective defensive maneuvers than not.
Would really like to know where you have got your data about dogfights ever being supersonic. Or even being transient in that regime. I have never seen it, or heard of it discussed by any pilot anywhere ever.
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