J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII

[latenlazy]

Traditional process is already automated. It is done with CNC machine and both China and the U.S. actually import from Switzerland for fifth gen manufacturing.

Traditional process first requires forging blanks. This is an extra production tail that doesn’t exist for 3D printed solutions.

 

[Deino]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2054244616548000204

the article is based of this video so it's likely credible

Is this a bad & stupid joke only or do you really believe this BS and even more so trust this site?

Zhao Da Shuai like this Louis-guy or PLA Military Updates are pure fan-boys/girls and spread any news as long as it fits their agenda!

By the way, the rate has been quite high with 100+ aircraft per year for the last years or does anyone believe it reaches now 200 per year!?

Per my understanding, such factories produce certain components and not a complete aircraft. According to what I learnt and got from others, this video reported that the composite layup process has been streamlined from a full day's work for six people down to just half a day's work for a single person.

 

[Jason_]

Is this a bad & stupid joke only or do you really believe this BS and even more so trust this site?

Zhao Da Shuai like this Louis-guy or PLA Military Updates are pure fan-boys/girls and spread any news as long as it fits their agenda!

By the way, the rate has been quite high with 100+ aircraft per year for the last years or does anyone believe it reaches now 200 per year!?

Per my understanding, such factories produce certain components and not a complete aircraft. According to what I learnt and got from others, this video reported that the composite layup process has been streamlined from a full day's work for six people down to just half a day's work for a single person.

Production efficiency doubling does not mean annual production rate doubling.

It might mean a year's worth of J-20 production can now be done in 6 month leaving extra production resources for J-36/CCAs, etc.

 

[doggydogdo]

Is this a bad & stupid joke only or do you really believe this BS and even more so trust this site?

Zhao Da Shuai like this Louis-guy or PLA Military Updates are pure fan-boys/girls and spread any news as long as it fits their agenda!

By the way, the rate has been quite high with 100+ aircraft per year for the last years or does anyone believe it reaches now 200 per year!?

I was just talking about the video, and it talks about how they used automation to makes stuff cheaper and faster. I don't think their interpretations matter much

Per my understanding, such factories produce certain components and not a complete aircraft. According to what I learnt and got from others, this video reported that the composite layup process has been streamlined from a full day's work for six people down to just half a day's work for a single person.

Yeah, that's what the video said, and tbf to the scmp article it also just talks about the "skeleton" of the aircraft and not a complete aircraft

 

[sequ]

At least it’s not Stephen Chen. But as a whole I don’t put SCMP too high on the credibility list.

This is completely expected given China's level of manufacturing sophistication.

Well, dark factories are general trend of manufacturing, especially for nations strong on manufacturing robotics (there are other concurrent trends overall, but it depends on country by country basis). Plane is ultimately batch manufacturing goods.

If you can assemble cars, you can assemble aircraft.

So it's 2 vs 1 then ahahaha

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Production efficiency doubling does not mean annual production rate doubling.

It might mean a year's worth of J-20 production can now be done in 6 month leaving extra production resources for J-36/CCAs, etc.

I'd say that this is certainly the more realistic scenario.

In addition and of course, I don't think that this would certainly result in the J-20 family's production rate being doubled outright (and the J-20 family's production duration being halved outright), as the rate of component production ≠ rate of J-20 production when considering all the other factors at play (QC inspections, logistics, material consumption and cost management, human resource management, etc).

But yes, there are definitely positive things coming out of such developments to warrant making such changes to the relevant manufacturing processes of such components, including but not limited to operational expenditure savings, improved worker welfare conditions (e.g. we've heard from the Guancha Gang's mentioning sometime ago about workers dying from overwork at Chengdu AC, so hopefully this would become an impactful solution to the problem), better/streamlined/upgraded manufacturing processes, and freed-up resources for other projects/works across the production facilities of Chengdu AC.

 

[CasualObserver]

Weight saving, strengthened structure, but most importantly immense cost savings in titanium processing. Traditional method requires carving the whole bulkhead from a solid block of titanium alloy and what is cut out cannot be melted and reused.

This is what TA(I) uses for the Kaan:

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The EBAM machine is going to TAI’s Ankara, Turkey plant, where it will 3D print some of the largest titanium aerostructures in the industry. The machine’s work envelope stretches beyond 6 meters in length by 2 meters in width by 1.8 meters in height.

Though the bulkhead probably isn’t printed as a single piece, but rather in two pieces…

 

[Deino]

I was just talking about the video, and it talks about how they used automation to makes stuff cheaper and faster. I don't think their interpretations matter much

Yeah, that's what the video said, and tbf to the scmp article it also just talks about the "skeleton" of the aircraft and not a complete aircraft

No, you were clearly not just talking about the video, you clearly posted - and IMO deliberately - a tweet that clearly started with "The production rate of J-20 stealth fighter has doubled in a "dark factory" in China" and then added "the article is based of this video so it's likely credible" !

This was either deliberately done or just naive, otherwise why you didn't add that it DID NOT MEAN the production rate of J-20 stealth fighter has doubled ??

 

[tphuang]

Weight saving, strengthened structure, but most importantly immense cost savings in titanium processing. Traditional method requires carving the whole bulkhead from a solid block of titanium alloy and what is cut out cannot be melted and reused.

hmm, costing saving part is actually not true. Ti 3D powders are a lot more expensive than your standard alloy.

The story for the J-35 is supposedly that its entire complement of bulkheads are 3D printed and this capability was first demonstrated back in the mid 2010s so if that’s still the case I have to imagine they could have already scaled that process to J-20 sized bulkheads too.

Maybe, but I'd love to see this actually in action since 3D metals printer only started producing larger parts very recently.

Are components made with 3d printing strong enough? You have these printing machines spewing out stuff in the process. But do these particles stick together strongly?

Yes, depends on what you are comparing it too. 3D printed parts are often stronger than casting. You can get different strength 3D printing powders.

Different parts, different requirements lead to different production processes. In many cases, you get so much weight savings with 3D printing that it's the only logical way to make things.

Traditional process is already automated. It is done with CNC machine and both China and the U.S. actually import from Switzerland for fifth gen manufacturing.

What CNC machine is China importing from Switzerland for AVIC manufacturing?

 

[foxmulder_ms]

No, you were clearly not just talking about the video, you clearly posted - and IMO deliberately - a tweet that clearly started with "The production rate of J-20 stealth fighter has doubled in a "dark factory" in China" and then added "the article is based of this video so it's likely credible" !

This was either deliberately done or just naive, otherwise why you didn't add that it DID NOT MEAN the production rate of J-20 stealth fighter has doubled ??

?? Why are so ramped up? Calm down mate. If you read it, it says component production is doubled. Now, you can relax.