J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII

[Red tsunami]

though we should have wait for some official figure.

T/W - 11.0
Dry thrust - 25,000 lbf
Wet thrust - 38,000-40,000 lbf

Wet thrust - if we take all military vloggers in mainland estimate. wet thrust will be definitely above 18 tons minimum.

How can WS-15 achieve a thrust increase of more than 2 tons compared to F119 using BPR similar to F119? I don't think we should pay too much attention to sea level thrust. WS-15 is an engine specially optimized for high altitude and high speed. Even if WS-15 brings less than 20% wet thrust improvement compared to WS-10, due to its much stronger high-altitude high-speed performance, it will greatly expand the flight envelope of J-20 compared to WS-10.

 

[sunnymaxi]

How can WS-15 achieve a thrust increase of more than 2 tons compared to F119 using BPR similar to F119? I don't think we should pay too much attention to sea level thrust. WS-15 is an engine specially optimized for high altitude and high speed.

0.25 BPR is not accurate.. just an outdated information. but 18+ tons wet thrust is 100 percent confirmed news.

so we should wait for official specifications.

 

[Red tsunami]

but 18+ tons wet thrust is 100 percent confirmed news.

Unfortunately, we are unable to confirm the authenticity of this "official information".

 

[sunnymaxi]

Unfortunately, we are unable to confirm the authenticity of this "official information".

right. WS-15 is totally a whole different engine as compared to WS-10. a generational jump in technology. we people barely know anything. i hope Liming publish some information about engine.

 

[Blitzo]

right. WS-15 is totally a whole different engine as compared to WS-10. a generational jump in technology. we people barely know anything. i hope Liming publish some information about engine.

If you agree that it isn't confirmed then you shouldn't be throwing around terms like "100% confirmed news"...

 

[by78]

I wonder why the date is 2012.10.10

I think by A状态 (configuration A), it might refer to airframe 2011, which is the first one that came after the initial two technology demonstrators (painted black) and one that began to closely resemble the eventual service model.

 

[Temstar]

Moe Orca's view on WS-15. He's not the most reliable person, but it's worth hearing him out I think:

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Summery, he says these are his educated guess:
1. 18.5 tons max thrust is bullshit, real stats for WS-15 isn't published anywhere
2. WS-15 stats are likely to be broadly similar to F-119, that is 0.3 BPR, dry thrust 10 tons, wet thrust 15-16 tons, turbine inlet temperature 1900K, TWR 10.
3. You might feel those stats seem pretty disappointing and only slightly better than WS-10, and might even use more fuel than WS-10 at low altitude, but this is an engine optimized for high speed high altitude, under those operating conditions it's a huge step forward compared to WS-10
4. overall tech level same as F-119

In the weibo post he does say the nozzle is all new and looks very good, with strong emphasis on low IR and low RCS. He's also been repeatedly saying comparing sea level wet thrust as the "one stat to rule them all" is not the correct approach to judge engines and you need to know what the thrust curve is like, and we have no idea about thrust curve.

For your consideration.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Maximum thrust in and of itself have very little value. The real deal is the performance envelope of the engine.

 

[kwaigonegin]

In terms of technology, I think it is better than F119 and F135. You need to understand that F135 got the higher thrust by increasing its bypass ratio compared to F119. For the same engine core, higher bypass ratio increase thrust at the cost of lowering the maximum speed of the plane. F135 and F119 has similar technological advancements. If anything, the WS15 has a even lower bypass ratio compared to the F119, yet it has a higher afterburner thrust. Like others here, I am still waxed by how the WS15 has slightly lower military thrust while having a significantly higher afterburner thrust compared to the F119. I guess we will get our answers down the road.

I think that's a very bold statement to make considering we know almost 0 about it.
The F135 is a tremendously good engine. A variation of it is even going into the B21.
If WS15 is genuinely better and more importantly more reliable than F135, then shenyang liming has basically surpassed the likes of GE, P&W, RR in making TF!

Good is also an arbitrary term. In the world of turbofans, to be good or better includes metrics such as MTBF and in-flight shutdown (IFSD). Anyone can make a high thrust engine just like anyone can make a 5000 HP car but is it practical, it is reliable etc?

 

[Atomicfrog]

I think that's a very bold statement to make considering we know almost 0 about it.
The F135 is a tremendously good engine. A variation of it is even going into the B21.
If WS15 is genuinely better and more importantly more reliable than F135, then shenyang liming has basically surpassed the likes of GE, P&W, RR in making TF!

Good is also an arbitrary term. In the world of turbofans, to be good or better includes metrics such as MTBF and in-flight shutdown (IFSD). Anyone can make a high thrust engine just like anyone can make a 5000 HP car but is it practical, it is reliable etc?

Airframe have a lot to do with the problems of F135. They had so much airframe flexing that it was bending the engine in the first batch of F-35 after that he was so heavy that the engine is used outside his design parameters....

WS-15 need to be better than last variant of ws-10. The gap between first batch of WS-10 and the last is big. WS-15 will have way more place to be improved later. If we see the WS-15 replacing the WS-10C/G? on J-20 means they have a better engine in hands. Throwing numbers don't means a lot, it's sexy but a bit futile right now.