J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[Inst]

The Vapor cone doesn’t mean it’s hit super sonic speeds. You can have that effect in humid air without breaking the sound barrier.
Farther F35 can be easily seen on burner because you can see into the Nozzle from this angle J20’s angle vs the camera means that we cannot see into the nozzles.

The F-35 nozzle seems to glow more in comparison to the J-20 nozzle. It's possible that the J-20 nozzle has been designed for better IR-stealth on AB, especially with WS-10 / Al-31 engines, although we can definitely see shots of the J-20 with an afterburner trail.

Exactly, and I can assure you when you see the J-20 being pitched to the vertical, or any heavy maneuvering such as hard pulls or very steep banks he is without doubt in afterburner.. whether or not the flame is visible to the naked eye is inconsequential, that depends on ambient lighting etc, etc.

The solo flight display at Zhuhai was in afterburner almost continuously after the break, and that applies to all heavy fighter aircraft being aggressively maneuvered.

Show me how the Zhuhai showed afterburner on. Part of the problem is that the J-20 has generally not shown exceptional maneuverability. In this video (

), for instance, we see a J-20 executing a thirty-degree turn with AB on at altitude (what kind of clouds are those?), but a dive-turn at 30 degrees isn't that big of a deal. One simple possibility is that the videos we've seen to date reflect the J-20 not using its afterburner. The visual giveaway should be a narrowed nozzle to indicate afterburners off.

 

[Biscuits]

The F-35 nozzle seems to glow more in comparison to the J-20 nozzle. It's possible that the J-20 nozzle has been designed for better IR-stealth on AB, especially with WS-10 / Al-31 engines, although we can definitely see shots of the J-20 with an afterburner trail.



Show me how the Zhuhai showed afterburner on. Part of the problem is that the J-20 has generally not shown exceptional maneuverability. In this video (

), for instance, we see a J-20 executing a thirty-degree turn with AB on at altitude (what kind of clouds are those?), but a dive-turn at 30 degrees isn't that big of a deal. One simple possibility is that the videos we've seen to date reflect the J-20 not using its afterburner. The visual giveaway should be a narrowed nozzle to indicate afterburners off.

It was already said by a J-20 pilot that it beats the other PLAAF planes (includes J-10C, J-16 and Su-35, which are extremely maneuverable) in terms of maneuverability, they’re just not pushing the airframe to anywhere near it’s limits publicly.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

The F-35 nozzle seems to glow more in comparison to the J-20 nozzle. It's possible that the J-20 nozzle has been designed for better IR-stealth on AB, especially with WS-10 / Al-31 engines, although we can definitely see shots of the J-20 with an afterburner trail.

Hardly what I would call a solid scientific comparison.

 

[siegecrossbow]

It was already said by a J-20 pilot that it beats the other PLAAF planes (includes J-10C, J-16 and Su-35, which are extremely maneuverable) in terms of maneuverability, they’re just not pushing the airframe to anywhere near it’s limits publicly.

Source?

Li Gang, J-20’s test pilot, reported that the J-20 has similar agility to the J-10, and Yankee stated that the J-20 is the 2nd best aircraft kinematically within PLAAF, implying that the Su-35 is better at this point in time.

 

[ougoah]

Certain kinematic performance parameters have become less important with HMD, HOBS, and kinematically superior generations of missiles. These include agility and maneuverability. Other general parameters like climb rate, acceleration, service ceiling, top speed, supercruise, and energy retention, remain important for maximising missile energy and fighter placement. Who cares if the J-20 turns as well as J-10 or Su-35 or if it's slightly more cumbersome than those. There are more important tasks to get done right which are actually still mysterious to us observers. It's nice to have great agility and maneuverability and can come in useful. But 5th gens want to avoid close range fights and with modern missiles, dodging them using the old tricks are dangerous and unnecessary.

 

[Anlsvrthng]

Certain kinematic performance parameters have become less important with HMD, HOBS, and kinematically superior generations of missiles. These include agility and maneuverability.

Interesting this claim.

What link, analysis supports that there is a new generation of kinetically superior missiles ?

I mean, the computer capacity increased a lot in the past decades, but the missile material, fuel and control surfaces doesn't improved a lot .

And HMD, HOBS existing since the 70s, so that can not be a reason to justify inferior flight characteristic.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Source?

Ok Gang, J-20’s test pilot, reported that the J-20 has similar agility to the J-10 and Yankee claimed that the J-20 is the 2nd best aircraft kinematically within PLAAF, implying that the Su-35 is better at this point in time.

That's quite a feat given the mediocre performance of the engines the J-20 is currently equipped with. With the 25% increase in thrust and the TVC capabilities of the WS-15, the J-20 will be untouchable.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Certain kinematic performance parameters have become less important with HMD, HOBS, and kinematically superior generations of missiles. These include agility and maneuverability. Other general parameters like climb rate, acceleration, service ceiling, top speed, supercruise, and energy retention, remain important for maximising missile energy and fighter placement. Who cares if the J-20 turns as well as J-10 or Su-35 or if it's slightly more cumbersome than those. There are more important tasks to get done right which are actually still mysterious to us observers. It's nice to have great agility and maneuverability and can come in useful. But 5th gens want to avoid close range fights and with modern missiles, dodging them using the old tricks are dangerous and unnecessary.

See my post.

 

[Biscuits]

Source?

Li Gang, J-20’s test pilot, reported that the J-20 has similar agility to the J-10, and Yankee stated that the J-20 is the 2nd best aircraft kinematically within PLAAF, implying that the Su-35 is better at this point in time.

I think the pilot interviews were posted earlier before in this thread.

The takeaway point is that it maneuvered better than any earlier gen airplane in PLAAF, and it became even better when it came to high speed performance.

But given how maneuverable J-10C and Su-35 are, it’s possible that some of it could fall to the individual pilot’s preference.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I think the pilot interviews were posted earlier before in this thread.

The takeaway point is that it maneuvered better than any earlier gen airplane in PLAAF, and it became even better when it came to high speed performance.

But given how maneuverable J-10C and Su-35 are, it’s possible that some of it could fall to the individual pilot’s preference.

The pilot (Zhang Hao) said that the J-20 is "pretty good" in subsonic maneuvering but unmatched in the supersonic regime. From his comments we can only conclude that the J-20 is the best aircraft supersonic maneuverability wise within PLAAF.