J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

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AndrewS

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I think the key is where the conflict would be? ... if it was inside China or near Chinese coast and from what I read that China now have the radar tech that can detect stealth fighters 450 kms away, J-10 and J-11 would have a good chance to beat F-22 or F-35

If the conflict is far away from Chinese coast ... i.e SCS ... thats would be interesting ... considering China has a few big islands already and USN would need to bring the fighters from far away

If the conflict in open sea in Pacific or near the US continent ... I don't think PLAAF have any chance to win, unfortunately ... at least not yet :p

Area detection of a stealth fighter with L-band or S-band radars at long range should be possible.

But engagement with an X-band radar and missiles is another matter. You need stealth fighters to get into range
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
There are multiple reasons not to ditch conventional fighters altogether even with stealths.

Just a few of the obvious ones off the top of my head:

-Stealth fighters can only carry a limited munitions load in terms of both quantity and size internally. If you start hanging weapons externally, you might as well be using conventional planes.

With a mixed fleet, the stealths can range ahead and act as spotters to cue up conventional fighters acting as missile carriers to shoot super long range AAMs at enemy stealths from beyond their internally carried missile ranges.

-similarly, conventional planes can carry dedicated jamming pods to enhance the survivability of both your stealth and conventional jets.

-modern radars have LPI scanning modes, but in order to remain LPI, there will be some sacrifices in performance compared to zero restriction, max performance mode.

With a mixed fleet, you can have conventional fighters like the J16 use their radars at max power and datalink the results to nearby J20s.

Any enemy stealth that wants to take a crack at the J16s will announce themselves to the J20s.

-with the limited munitions load and numbers of stealths, combat persistence becomes an issue.

With a large fleet of conventional fighters, you can tag team the enemy.

Planes like the J10 could be held back in reserve, initially to protect high value assets like AWACS and tankers, but after the main fighter groups have engaged, they can boost forward to join in the fray when both sets of stealths are locked in WVR dogfighting.

With enemy stealths already locked in WVR, they can close with minimal or no interference, and could even only carry WVR loads.

Their arrival would allow your stealths to disengage to rearm and refuel, while the enemy stealths are forced to fight on with guns only or risk turning tail and presenting easy tail shots.

Agreed.

But the original point is that China has a huge disadvantage in the number of stealth fighters whilst already having a decent sized force of modern conventional fighters like the J-10 and the Flanker airframes. So it makes sense for Chengdu to focus its limited resources on the J-20 instead of the J-10.

Shenyang is still some way from producing the J-31, so in the meantime it will be producing Flanker airframes. These are better for teaming up with the J-20 (because it's also a heavyweight fighter) and also better suited for the strike role as well.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Agreed.

But the original point is that China has a huge disadvantage in the number of stealth fighters whilst already having a decent sized force of modern conventional fighters like the J-10 and the Flanker airframes. So it makes sense for Chengdu to focus its limited resources on the J-20 instead of the J-10.

Shenyang is still some way from producing the J-31, so in the meantime it will be producing Flanker airframes. These are better for teaming up with the J-20 (because it's also a heavyweight fighter) and also better suited for the strike role as well.

Why can't Chengdu expand the resources to be able to produce J-10 and J-20 at the same time with high output? thats what China do best .... to mass produce almost anything with high quality and cheaply once has mastered it
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Why can't Chengdu expand the resources to be able to produce J-10 and J-20 at the same time with high output? thats what China do best .... to mass produce almost anything with high quality and cheaply once has mastered it

Chengdu has a limited number of engineers and training people takes time.
Plus the Chengdu facility is constrained by space.

And if the J-20 has a better cost-performance ratio than the J-10 (in a high-end conflict against large numbers of opposing stealth fighters), why bother with continuing J-10 production?
It's better just to focus on increasing J-20 output.

Plus I think China already has a sufficient number of J-10 for missions where it has the best cost-performance ratio.
 
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antiterror13

Brigadier
Chengdu has a limited number of engineers and training people takes time.
Plus the Chengdu facility is constrained by space.

And if the J-20 have a better cost-performance ratio than the J-10, why bother with continuing J-10 production?
It's better just to focus on increasing J-20 output.

I think China already has a sufficient number of J-10 for missions where it has the best cost-performance ratio.

if there is an order from PLAAF to Chengdu to make J-10 and J-20 in big number .. they will find a way, absolutely
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I am not sure but I think I read somewhere the number of pilots is the limit.

China still has a large number of pilots flying older obsolete aircraft. So it shouldn't be an issue to ensure the J-20 and J-10 squadrons have enough pilots.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
China still has a large number of pilots flying older obsolete aircraft. So it shouldn't be an issue to ensure the J-20 and J-10 squadrons have enough pilots.

You need to train those pilots so that they can operate advanced fighters. Reportedly the first Su-27 pilots in China found operating a fourth generation fighter very counterintuitive.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Yes. But why would the PLAAF place such an order?

They should want the J-20 instead of a larger number of additional J-10s

you are absolutely right if PLAAF has no budget limit .... but unfortunately PLAAF do have budget limit ;)

I am sure you are aware that J-20 is a very expensive, like ~2-3x of J-10B/C
 
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