J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Raptor is a top of the line strike bird? That's some news.

Any rehating fighter with mach 2+ speeds can do the same, or better.
Faster of the bunch(ironically, including f-15) can comfortably exceed this level of range performance, with various heavier and better flying payload options.
True but at the cost of fuel. The super cruise let's it do it without reheat.
And stealth means it can do it behind enemy lines.
Where a F15E doing that would be exposed to potential attack and burning more fuel.

Now my point is not to try and make J20 seem like a striker but it should be able to as well.
 
True but at the cost of fuel. The super cruise let's it do it without reheat.
And stealth means it can do it behind enemy lines.
Where a F15E doing that would be exposed to potential attack and burning more fuel.

Now my point is not to try and make J20 seem like a striker but it should be able to as well.
what exactly do you mean by "should be able" here?

it's the Pentagon using Raptors against dope Nov 20, 2017
cross-posting from
F-22 Raptor Thread
about Raptors bombing poppy fields:
U.S. F-22 Stealth Jets Perform Raptor’s First Ever Air Strike In Afghanistan Employing Small Diameter Bombs
Read more at
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I doubt J-20 would be used that way
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
True but at the cost of fuel. The super cruise let's it do it without reheat.
F-22 carries quite a limited internal fuel. So limited, in fact, what her supercruise is more about thermal signature than an actual range boost. Less-than-ideal aerodynamic solution doesn't help.
Basically, any chinese j-11 with low-drag payload(say, in a tunnel or under nacelles) can dash just as good.

It only relates to f-22, which was coseived as a pure european theatre air superiority aircraft, and everything else was done only reluctantly, just to save as much as possible from the cuts.

Furthermore, f-22 stealth is very... Air2air-ish in its nature. It won't really save her in a dense AA network, leaving only a naked EW-less fighter.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I doubt J-20 would be used that way
That's what
what exactly do you mean by "should be able" here?
I am saying.
J20 is still being felt out by the PLA PLA but from a technology stand point it is more than just the air to air machine.
Take those missile bays
Everyone sees 4 long range air to air missiles. That's fine. But I also see at least 2 air to ground missiles as an option. Or how about antiship misiles.
Modern fighters especially fifth gens are expensive investments. As such the prefrpreference is to have multi role capabilities. IE get more mission out of a platform
J20 has a EOTS style sensor, It has 2 missile bays of a good size and 2 short range air to air bays.
Now from a mission stand point the first mission aim is obvious air superiority.
Okay fine but if you have that then what? Do you send them back to base?
No of course not. If they are already operating then the next step is to start shifting missions. Less air to air more air to ground.
Now someone I am sure will say "but they have fourth gens with superior load outs" and they do.
And you can hang a bigger weapon off the wing of a J10 or J11 then in the bay of a J20. Same is true for any other fifth gen. But if you are flying in territory where you are still not quite in control, that big weapon is a big radar return which means a big target.
Where if you have the low observable you may not have that big bomb but you can get closer and in many cases you don't actually need that bigger bomb to do the job.
@Jura you point to that article which is fine, but as any one should be able to say the stealth is a bit over kill in that yet both American fifth gens have cut there teeth there, why? Not to just prove a point but to prove it.
Basically, any chinese j-11 with low-drag payload(say, in a tunnel or under nacelles) can dash just as good.
Blah blah blah... you miss the point and so did the Russians in a recent news article.
First super cruise is more fuel effective than going full burner because of the limited internal fuel which would only be solved by sacrificing performance for mass and in turn demanding something more like a flying wing bomber then a fighter which J20 and F22 are primarily.

Your second claim I am not even going to grace with a response.

Third so two are every fighter and oh yeah these new AESA are jammers in their own right. And that also plays again vs what we are seeing here.


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So again I say from a practical standpoint the 4 main bay missiles are just the start of what J20 has as potential future weapons loadouts.
If she does indeed have a "superior range" it would I think even more allow it to perform a secondary mission set as needed. Particularly as the PRC seems to be taking there time with there follow on low observable programs (Bomber, FC31 and more) indicating a preference to getting J20 more mature before pulling the trigger again.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
Blah blah blah
Sorry to disturb the church of the sacred raptor.
But i have to remind, what the money were redirected onto something multirole(f-35) instead.
You don't have to explain why supercruise is effecient, it is obvious.
The question here lies in the f-22 itself, because it took almost no compromises in its air superiority role. Compromising everything else.
Arguing about its limited capabilities against ground targets, limited range(including the range of its supercruise dash) is pointless, because these are facts. Ineffecient or not, reheating j-11 still flies further than supercruising f-22.

Is it for j-20? We don't know really, but if China wants to make same choices in favour of air superiority(yet having an inferior engine technology) - keeping multirole becomes increasingly hard as well.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Anyways, coming back to the J20, what are the odds the PLAAF will develop mini-rock pods that can fit in the side weapons bays to allow the J20 to shoot rockets, thereby passing that final mandatory service entry requirement? :p

I think the J-16 will be used for applications like that. I still think the Chinese could use a CAS dedicated aircraft though. Best they have is fighter bombers.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Anyways, coming back to the J20, what are the odds the PLAAF will develop mini-rock pods that can fit in the side weapons bays to allow the J20 to shoot rockets, thereby passing that final mandatory service entry requirement? :p
It sounds crazy. But there has been floated such an idea except that the rockets are defensive missiles.
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
They wouldn't have to be mini rocket pods either. Wingspan of PL-10 allows for a rocket pod of at least 200mm diameter, while keeping the distance from rocket plume of the nearest rocket to the plane the same. five 80mm rockets should be able to fit in such a package.
 
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