J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

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Air Force Brat

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Henri K take on the J20 demonstration in Zhuhai airshow Interesting interview with Li Gang the test pilot for J 20. When ask to the performance of J20 the pilot said that J20 is as agile as J10. That should put and end to the myth that J 20 is underpower
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Airshow China 2018: Cockpit, Weapon bay, demonstration ... the J-20 is unveiled more
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As in 2016, the J-20 fighter of the Chinese Air Force is present again this year in Zhuhai-Jinwan for the 12th edition of Airshow China 2018. But compared to two years ago , the aircraft dubbed Wei Long (威龙) by its designer the 611 Chengdu Institute of AVIC has unveiled more, whether in number of public presentation or demonstration content.

Starting with the number of aircraft - At the 2016 Zhuhai Air Show, while the aircraft's entry into service with the People's Liberation Army Air Force was not yet announced, two J-20 made a brief appearance of one minute during the inauguration of the event by flying over the runways of Zhuhai-Jinwan Airport. This year, the J-20 has more than doubled its presence at the same show and a total of four aircraft has come to deliver flying demonstrations for four days on the 6th, 9th, 10th and 11th of November.

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If the J-20 is still not exposed to the ground so that visitors can watch it closely, as the F-22 and F-35 have done at some air meetings, it remains that PLAAF has been much more open, and also more confident, to reveal and talk about its new spearhead dedicated aerial domination.

For example, interviews and press conferences were held last week in Zhuhai for the media to have the opportunity to speak live with the J-10B, J-20 and Y-20 pilots. LI Gang, who took charge of the first inaugural flight of J-20, has
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"It's transcendent (梦幻) ...", LI used this one word to summarize and answer the journalists' question about his J-20 flying experiences, a word that leaves room for imagination.


As for the cockpit of the aircraft that has never been shown to the public, the Chinese test pilot indicates that the cockpit of the J-20 is not only large and simple but especially very user-friendly.

"Everyone who has seen the J-20 cockpit is amazed by its simplicity and user-friendliness. Any switch or button, at a glance or touch we understand its function, day and night. LI said, "Chief Engineer YANG Wei gave us empty cockpit plans and stickers representing switches and buttons. And he asked us to stick them to the place that we think is the most reasonable on the plans. "

The shots from each elite pilot are then compared and compared to the others, and at least five rounds of review and selection took place during the development of the aircraft. From the plan on paper to the wooden model, then to the metal model, the engineers and pilots participating in the program worked on the smallest detail to arrive on an integrated mono-screen cockpit that they describe as a "science fiction" ".

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Left Throttles and Right Side Stick are equipped with HOTAS, you can fly the airplane without taking your hands of the throttle or stick, all the important switch's and buttons are there, including "weaps fire control",,, very nicely laid out, and neat "glass cockpit" though I'm still more comfortable with analog, but, I'm an older gent....
 

Air Force Brat

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one great Propaganda picture:

Oh DAMN! and I thought that was a pretty airplane picture! LOL

Lets just enjoy the pretty airplane pictures Brother, we can pick on these guys later if you want to??? just a joke guys, although I will try to keep you honest..

Actually Jura, we need to try to keep the tone here civil, this last week has reminded me of the days when we all liked and respected each other, and were fair and honest, I'm very impressed with this airplane, and with Air Show China..

I'd like to do my part to return SDF to honor and respect! (at least until somebody goes out of their way to "tick me off"), BDPopeye and JeffHead ran a tight ship, thanking our Mod's one and all, I think we ought to try to return to that honorable time and place.....
 

Air Force Brat

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Tails generate positive lift and drag too. You don’t really think air decides to skip flowing over the tails because they’re tails do you? Yes, that positive lift might be smaller per area because of downwash from the wings, but that’s why tails tend to be bigger, to generate the same amount of pushing force needed to pitch the plane. Meanwhile that drag from being an object that interacts with the air stream is still there. In fact with that combination of being just as present to the air stream and typically larger size due to control demands it could be argued that tails in general generate as much drag as or more drag than canards (to be clear I’m not saying that a plane with tails is always draggier than a plane with canards, as always I dislike drawing hard conclusions about specific designs based on supposition.

Mods, feel free to move these posts to our dedicated aerodynamics thread:
Actually latenlazy, aft mounted stabilators/horizontal stabs and elevators produce a down force, they do NOT contribute to total lift as do canards, and they are traveling in dirty, low pressure air, so less drag in "trimmed" flight. (yes they are still draggy, but not as much as a canard, which is indeed making lift)
 

Air Force Brat

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Tailplanes would require a greater angle of attack to achieve the same control authority as canards, the larger surfaces of the tailplanes and the greater angles of attack can mean more drag during a turn. Tailplanes push the rear of the plane to pitch up the plane, whereas canards simply pull the nose up to pitch. Due to the movement of the tailplanes and the ailerons for roll, from the rear aspect, the tailed aircraft risks a greater RCS when facing a pursuer. Like you said both arrangements have their strengths and weaknesses.

Mods, please feel free to move these discussions to the aerodynamics thread:
You're almost there Tam, aft mounted tail surfaces may need to be larger/have longer "throws" than canards,,, but, but, on J-20 you have an aft mounted delta wing which gives you an aft center of lift, and aft center of gravity just due to all that wing structure, on the F-22 the mid mounted wing gives you "mass centralization, which means any pitch input is much less whether "positive" to pitch the nose up, (downforce), or negative to pitch the nose down, (lift), LOL, confused yet??

aft mounted stabs are always exerting a down force on the tail in order to provide a positive angle of attack of the main wing, forcing it to create lift! yes this does indeed increase drag! LOL
 

Air Force Brat

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Henri K take on the J20 demonstration in Zhuhai airshow Interesting interview with Li Gang the test pilot for J 20. When ask to the performance of J20 the pilot said that J20 is as agile as J10. That should put and end to the myth that J 20 is underpower
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Airshow China 2018: Cockpit, Weapon bay, demonstration ... the J-20 is unveiled more
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2e8d649e1b274ce816887d2ce17d9964

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As in 2016, the J-20 fighter of the Chinese Air Force is present again this year in Zhuhai-Jinwan for the 12th edition of Airshow China 2018. But compared to two years ago , the aircraft dubbed Wei Long (威龙) by its designer the 611 Chengdu Institute of AVIC has unveiled more, whether in number of public presentation or demonstration content.

Starting with the number of aircraft - At the 2016 Zhuhai Air Show, while the aircraft's entry into service with the People's Liberation Army Air Force was not yet announced, two J-20 made a brief appearance of one minute during the inauguration of the event by flying over the runways of Zhuhai-Jinwan Airport. This year, the J-20 has more than doubled its presence at the same show and a total of four aircraft has come to deliver flying demonstrations for four days on the 6th, 9th, 10th and 11th of November.

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If the J-20 is still not exposed to the ground so that visitors can watch it closely, as the F-22 and F-35 have done at some air meetings, it remains that PLAAF has been much more open, and also more confident, to reveal and talk about its new spearhead dedicated aerial domination.

For example, interviews and press conferences were held last week in Zhuhai for the media to have the opportunity to speak live with the J-10B, J-20 and Y-20 pilots. LI Gang, who took charge of the first inaugural flight of J-20, has
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

"It's transcendent (梦幻) ...", LI used this one word to summarize and answer the journalists' question about his J-20 flying experiences, a word that leaves room for imagination.


As for the cockpit of the aircraft that has never been shown to the public, the Chinese test pilot indicates that the cockpit of the J-20 is not only large and simple but especially very user-friendly.

"Everyone who has seen the J-20 cockpit is amazed by its simplicity and user-friendliness. Any switch or button, at a glance or touch we understand its function, day and night. LI said, "Chief Engineer YANG Wei gave us empty cockpit plans and stickers representing switches and buttons. And he asked us to stick them to the place that we think is the most reasonable on the plans. "

The shots from each elite pilot are then compared and compared to the others, and at least five rounds of review and selection took place during the development of the aircraft. From the plan on paper to the wooden model, then to the metal model, the engineers and pilots participating in the program worked on the smallest detail to arrive on an integrated mono-screen cockpit that they describe as a "science fiction" ".

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Yep, Blitzo, here is your Blue AB man!
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Mods, feel free to move these posts to our dedicated aerodynamics thread:
Actually latenlazy, aft mounted stabilators/horizontal stabs and elevators produce a down force, they do NOT contribute to total lift as do canards, and they are traveling in dirty, low pressure air, so less drag in "trimmed" flight. (yes they are still draggy, but not as much as a canard, which is indeed making lift)
Whether a tail generates a downforce or upforce depends on which direction they swivel, but the point is in order for them to generate any force they must generate lifting force first. Negative lifting force is just as draggy as positive lifting force. Essentially you’re dodging my point, which is that any feature which is not aerodynamically inert will generate drag. Tails are just as draggy as any other control device. You can’t excuse the drag generated by tails with “dirty low pressure air” and then also ignore the drag reduction under “dirty low pressure air” the wing experiences from the canard downwash. This is why declaring the adoption of a single feature as being a more or less draggy solution is an obfuscation of any serious aerodynamic analysis.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Playwolf gives a great answer, the high pressure air beneath the canards/wings is "bleeding over" into the low pressure air above the wing in a violent, tornadic action at two very specific aerodynamic features, the inboard gap between the canard and fuselage juncture as well as the outboard tips of the canard, and the inner dog-tooth formed by the leading edge slats..... those vortices "energize" flow and further lower the pressure and create additional liftit also bleeds over at the very tips of the wings, creating "tip vortices", which are also extremely violent, in fact so much so that a smaller aircraft following a larger aircraft will indeed loose control if flown into those vortices....the reason why smaller aircraft following larger aircraft are advised to remain above and aft of a "heavy" as they approach the airport, these "vortex generators" may be observed doing their work in the presence of moisture laden air, where clouds form as that denser high pressure air gives up that moisture in those little cotton candy clouds....

we are able to observe that the J-20 has a very "active" airflow....

Thanks for the explanation. I now appreciate why people are obsessed with those vortices. One more question though. All that condensation means that the temperature within the vortices is significantly lower, thus condensing the water vapor. Is this because of the significantly lowered pressure, as described in the Ideal Gas Law (pv=nrt)?
 
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