J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[Hendrik_2000]

From Global time via LKJ86. Is PL15 now in service ? I though standard missile is still PL12 and PL10

China’s fighter jets perform ‘perfect combination’ training
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2018/6/3 14:18:39

China's three most advanced missile-carrying fighter jets have conducted combined combat training that a Chinese expert on Sunday called "perfect combinations."

Taking part in air defense penetration drills were China's most advanced J-20 stealth fighter jet, the J-16 multi-role strike fighter and the J-10C multi-role fighter jet, China Central Television (CCTV) reported.

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force fighter jets used domestically developed mid-range PL-15 air-to-air missiles and short-range PL-10 air-to-air missiles for training, Sina reported on Saturday.

"The three fighter jets… and the two missiles are perfect combinations," Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Sunday.

First, the J-20 is capable of destroying a hostile air defense system, Song said, then the J-10C can take over air supremacy while the J-16 can strike enemy ground forces.

The PL-15 missile is capable of intercepting targets beyond visual range and the PL-10 is capable in a close-quarter dogfight, Song noted.

Multiple fighters using the same missiles showcased equipment standardization across the PLA, Song said. The missiles can be mass-produced, with more efficient logistics and supply.

The joint combat training followed maritime combat training for the J-20.

The drills reflected the true combat potential of the PLA Air Force, Song noted, showing its capability in all kinds of weathers, terrains and environments.

Yang Wei, a National People's Congress deputy and chief designer of the J-20, told CCTV, "To achieve true peace, only staying at home and defending is not enough. We need to have the ability to both defend and attack. And the J-20 is an aggressive weapon that can protect our country by attacking and gaining an advantage on the whole battlefield."

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[Deino]

From Global time via LKJ86. Is PL15 now in service ? I though standard missile is still PL12 and PL10

AFAIK YES ...

 

[siegecrossbow]

From Global time via LKJ86. Is PL15 now in service ? I though standard missile is still PL12 and PL10

China’s fighter jets perform ‘perfect combination’ training
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2018/6/3 14:18:39

China's three most advanced missile-carrying fighter jets have conducted combined combat training that a Chinese expert on Sunday called "perfect combinations."

Taking part in air defense penetration drills were China's most advanced J-20 stealth fighter jet, the J-16 multi-role strike fighter and the J-10C multi-role fighter jet, China Central Television (CCTV) reported.

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force fighter jets used domestically developed mid-range PL-15 air-to-air missiles and short-range PL-10 air-to-air missiles for training, Sina reported on Saturday.

"The three fighter jets… and the two missiles are perfect combinations," Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Sunday.

First, the J-20 is capable of destroying a hostile air defense system, Song said, then the J-10C can take over air supremacy while the J-16 can strike enemy ground forces.

The PL-15 missile is capable of intercepting targets beyond visual range and the PL-10 is capable in a close-quarter dogfight, Song noted.

Multiple fighters using the same missiles showcased equipment standardization across the PLA, Song said. The missiles can be mass-produced, with more efficient logistics and supply.

The joint combat training followed maritime combat training for the J-20.

The drills reflected the true combat potential of the PLA Air Force, Song noted, showing its capability in all kinds of weathers, terrains and environments.

Yang Wei, a National People's Congress deputy and chief designer of the J-20, told CCTV, "To achieve true peace, only staying at home and defending is not enough. We need to have the ability to both defend and attack. And the J-20 is an aggressive weapon that can protect our country by attacking and gaining an advantage on the whole battlefield."

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I think they might've either mistranslated what the expert said or the expert in question has a different opinion. In the original report from CCTV from June 1st, the J-20 uses its stealth and advanced sensors to fulfill the air superiority role while the J-10C and J-16 plows the ground, so to speak.

I also made another realization. Before the F-35 can fully unlock AIM-9X's potentials (lock even when the weaponsbay is closed), the J-20 will be the only stealth fighter with ability to fire IR missiles off-bore. It will offset some of the problems associated with an inferior engine in a dogfight.

 

[latenlazy]

I think they might've either mistranslated what the expert said or the expert in question has a different opinion. In the original report from CCTV from June 1st, the J-20 uses its stealth and advanced sensors to fulfill the air superiority role while the J-10C and J-16 plows the ground, so to speak.

I also made another realization. Before the F-35 can fully unlock AIM-9X's potentials (lock even when the weaponsbay is closed), the J-20 will be the only stealth fighter with ability to fire IR missiles off-bore. It will offset some of the problems associated with an inferior engine in a dogfight.

Well, if the J-20 is anywhere between 16 and 18 tonnes, the extra weight saved goes a long way to offsetting weaker engines.

 

[Tirdent]

I don't think the F-35 can carry the AIM-9X internally in the first place, as it lacks the extending trapeze required for rail launch. It's likely the F-22 will finally gain a HMD (currently planned for 2020, IIRC) before that happens, if it ever does.

 

[Gloire_bb]

but finding and developing a target track on those same aircraft will be very difficult.

Within unsupressed home air defence network of such scale?
Probably the simplest place to do it.
And the simplest way to throw away stealthy aircraft.
Perhaps with B-21 it can happen, it's positively intended to operate within a heavily defended airspace.
But for tactical aircraft it's just a suicide.

If it's suppressed - yes, they're the best thing to go in(and even then it'd be bloody at best, if ADN is remotely modern).
Because you're attempting something air defence is designed to counter in the first place. Taking modern China-level airdefences in such a cavalier fashion is kinda insolent.

 

[Pmichael]

I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that being "stealth" means you don't need to fly SEAD and EW missions.

 

[plawolf]

Indeed, stealth only reduced detection range, it does not eliminate the possibility of detection altogether.

What more, stealth aircraft have their good sides and their bad sides when it comes to RCS, which is why stealth mission planning is incredibly intricate and involves flying very complex routes to try and ensure the aircraft’s most stealthy sides are always facing the most dangerous enemy AD radars at the time, and that you only expose your less stealthy angles at ranges where the AD radar is not going to be able to get a hit.

But even in the best case scenario of going against only static AD radars, you usually still need EW and SEAD/DEAD to punch holes in enemy AD to create enough of an opening to try this sort of route.

One of the main missions of the F35 will also be to fly stealth SEAD/DEAD missions in support of stealth bombers to deal with mobile SAMs that might light up unexpectedly close to your stealth bombers.

Throw enemy airborne fighter and AWACS radars into the mix, and such stealth infiltration missions becomes all but impossible without assuming enormous risk.

That is by no means saying stealth is useless. It would still be an incredibly valuable asset to have. But you are going to have to do things the hard way, with a systematic and wholesale attritional campaign to degrade and overcome the enemy’s AD network and fighter screens rather than think you can just fly stealth bombers in on a whim to hit a target deep inside China or Russia without doing any of that prep work and expect to succeed let alone survive.

 

[Pmichael]

One could argue that stealth technolgy is actual a way to reduce the leverage modern air-defence systems gained with the massive improvement of (passive) radars and missile seeker technolgy.

 

[plawolf]

One could argue that stealth technolgy is actual a way to reduce the leverage modern air-defence systems gained with the massive improvement of (passive) radars and missile seeker technolgy.

Advancements in sensors benefits both attacker and defender.

In the arms race between aircraft and SAMs, stealth aircraft still holds a distinct advantage. Although recent advancements in radar, especially anti stealth radar, has pegged back its dominance somewhat compare to the early 90s to 2000s.

It’s only when we move past radar to use some other fundamental physics principle for long range precision detection would stealth loose its current edge.