My apologies then sir, I really feel Mr. Forbins fairness and content are priceless, as is your very prompt response and clarification, thank you so much.
J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V
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My apologies then sir, I really feel Mr. Forbins fairness and content are priceless, as is your very prompt response and clarification, thank you so much.
We only need to look to what is actually being used out there to answer this question:
China: J-15 with canards
Russia: SU-33 with canards
French: Rafael M with canards
From this we can clearly see that yes, canards are okay for carrier service.
GreenestGDP
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The canards on the j-15 and Su-33 are not exactly comparable to those on the Rafale or j-20.
One j-15and su-33 they primarily serve to reduce trim drag on an aircraft whose evolution has made it more nose heavy than the original su-27. On Rafale and j-20 they are primary control surfaces.
It should be noted that back when the USN was seriously contemplating developing the winner of the YF-22/YF-23 competition into a direct replacement for the F-14, the planned development path for the YF-23 into a carrier fighter involve wholesale revision of the airframe and turning it into a full canard configuration.
One j-15and su-33 they primarily serve to reduce trim drag on an aircraft whose evolution has made it more nose heavy than the original su-27. On Rafale and j-20 they are primary control surfaces.
It should be noted that back when the USN was seriously contemplating developing the winner of the YF-22/YF-23 competition into a direct replacement for the F-14, the planned development path for the YF-23 into a carrier fighter involve wholesale revision of the airframe and turning it into a full canard configuration.
The distant coupled canards of the J-20 do indeed serve as a primary means of pitch control, as well as serving as a vortex generator to increase turbulent flow over the top of the wing and generate additional lift. One of Dr. Songs go to fixes to allow sufficient pitch authority in the absence of OVT.
As to the Su-33 and J-15, the Russians used the canard to enhance pitch control and lift generation at the very low airspeeds needed to bring that large of an aircraft aboard the carrier, the Chinese took the Su-33 proto-type to develop the J-15 and followed that same logic. It is very sound logic, and while it may in fact reduce trim drag?? its primary purpose is vortex generation and enhancing pitch authority/rate.
On the upgraded Su-35 the Canards were eliminated due to cost, complexity and the airplane really didn't need them, although I would point out that SU-35 does make good use of OVT, technology that is not available to the Chinese, except through import??
As far as a navalized YF-23, one of the deficiencies of the YF-23 was the lack of pitch and yaw authority as compared to the YF-22 due to the use of a butterfly or V configuration of the tail surfaces, and no OVT to enhance that authority. In fact the YF-22 had the verts moved aft to bring yaw control into harmony with the massive pitch authority.
One of the caveat's that I offer the "tailless turkeys", is that NO FCS will replicate the stability or control authority of an actual vertical stabilizer. The very popular Beechcraft Bonanza was designed to offer less drag, but it also offered far less yaw stability, There were many weather related accidents, directly attributable to that lack of yaw stability.
The factory later reduced the angle between the "ruddervators in order to offer more yaw authority, and various aftermarket fixes, such as the "air skegg" offered additional small vertical surfaces or a one larger vertical stabilizer below the tail cone in order to add yaw stability to the aircraft, decreasing the Bonanza's very pronounced tendancy to "hunt" in turbulence. Just physics, the law doesn't change because people like the V-tail or reducing drag??? that's why "all" archers use a combination of 3 or 4 feathers to stabilize and spin their arrows, right wing or left wing, that spin stabilizes the arrow just as rifling does a bullet.
Richard and Bat...interesting conversation, and thanks to you both for your respective expertise.
But it is getting Off Topic here on the J-20 thread in terms of the detail for the YF22/YF23, the J-15, and SU-33.
We have threads for all of those aircraft where such detailed conversation would be more appropriate.
Back On Topic please.
Thanks.
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION.
But it is getting Off Topic here on the J-20 thread in terms of the detail for the YF22/YF23, the J-15, and SU-33.
We have threads for all of those aircraft where such detailed conversation would be more appropriate.
Back On Topic please.
Thanks.
DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION.
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