Yes Jeffrey, I agree with Master Siege, it is quite an honor to have you on the forum, and the expertise on the Sino Defense Forum is quite humbling, guys I did pass my LSA flight check on Saturday, so now I have an Ercoupe to fly, 1946 model?? LOL
J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V
- Thread starter Deino
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Yes Jeffrey, I agree with Master Siege, it is quite an honor to have you on the forum, and the expertise on the Sino Defense Forum is quite humbling, guys I did pass my LSA flight check on Saturday, so now I have an Ercoupe to fly, 1946 model?? LOL
'indian indegenious alloy" majumdar is on a roll, baby, after bashing chinese carriers, nuke subs., now he claims J20, j31 would killed by jananese AWACs.
i guess he isn't aware j20 with its ultra long range PL15, powerful Aesa radar and stealthy feature, its gonna detect an unstealthy AWAC first and pose a serious threat to AWAC.
why national interest allows such moron running around to post spams??
i guess he isn't aware j20 with its ultra long range PL15, powerful Aesa radar and stealthy feature, its gonna detect an unstealthy AWAC first and pose a serious threat to AWAC.
why national interest allows such moron running around to post spams??
vesicles
Colonel
This actually brings up an interesting point and a naive question. Would stealth fighters become AWACs killers? Please note that this is not specifically about the J-20, but stealth fighters in general. Since all AWACs tend to be slow, huge and unstealthy, would any stealthy fighter, which all should be equipped with advanced radars, be able to sneak up to an AWAC and shoot it down before being detected. How would AF's in the world protect their AWACs against such threat?
The high value and vulnerable nature of AEW&C means they are prime targets for the opfor, and even before stealth fighters arrived on the scene, I think the major air forces were all interested in how to defeat the other side's AEW&C.
So, in any high intensity conflict, AEW&C would likely have a meaningful number of fighter escorts guarding it. Stealth fighters obviously complicate the situation, but the risk can be mitigated by giving the AEW&C a larger fighter escort spread across a greater distance, upgrade the AEW&C's own sensors to detect stealth aircraft better, to improve communication and datalinks between all fighters and aircraft so that if a stealth fighter is come across they can all react faster, and finally, they can also simply fly a little bit further away from the front lines as well.
Lol it's the national interest, there's no reason to take what they're writing seriously...
If one looks at the military related articles they're putting out, so many of them are clickbait puff pieces, it's kind of sad.
Being a AWAC killer was widely talked to be one of the tasks of J-20. So the intension is surely there, and calculation and simulation would have been done or seriously considered. If AWAC can spot a Su-27 or F-15 in say 400 km, it can only spot a F-22 or J-20 in about 100km??? That is well within the range of radar homing AA missiles. In such case, AWAC wouldn't even know who is hitting it.
after reading national interest for two months, I decided that 75% of their articles are garbage. I still read them though, to not miss the 25%.
Hence the emphasis on sensor fusion and network integration. If you have two or three different AWACs and a bunch of escorts all lighting their sensors in different directions, it becomes harder to hide an incoming stealth fighter, since you increase your chance of beaming them at an angle where they don't have good RCS. That's the idea anyways.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
The Chinese military has always displayed a preference towards high impact assets that can majorly weaken the bulk of an enemy's forces and allow its own legacy forces an advantage, and the J20 should be a prime example of that.
I have said right from the start that the likes of the J20 will play an important role in hunting down and destroying opfor high value force multipliers like AWACS, tankers, military transports etc.
I think that is one of the main reasons why the J20 is clearly designed with long range in mind. They are designed to penetrate enemy defensive lines using stealth and raw performance, then haunt the enemy support lines killing the things that help the enemy fighters stay in the fight and in indeed, in the air itself.
Now, all stealth fighters will be able to do that to some extent, but I think the J20 should be able to do it the best.
If you are going to go hunting for enemy force multipliers, you need to penetrate deep behind the primary combat zones and operate deep behind enemy "lines" where they think their high value assets are safe.
That requires great range, as obviously if you are facing against an enemy with 5th gens as well, then their stealths will be looking to do the same to your support assets. That means that the side who has the 5th gen with the longer legs can afford to place their tankers further back, potentially out of range of opposing enemy 5th gens.
I think if you are serious about going AWACS hunting, you will also need to develop specialist tools. AAMs with the ability to home in passively, like the PL12, will be very useful, as any active homing AAM will instantly give the game away, and will probably be fairly vulnerable as I would imagine an AWACS can mount a fairly powerful and comprehensive electronic attack against active radar seekers.
Ideally you will want a stealthy EO and/or multi-seeker missile that can ignore the AWACS' powerful jamming while minimising enemy reaction times.
Super long range AAMs are unnecessary with stealths, as they are more for conventional fighters wishing to do the same job without being able to bypass enemy forward CAP.
In terms of defending against it, I think there are many things that can and will have to be done.
The easiest is fighter escorts for key assets, but I think that's the wrong approach. 5th gens will wipe the floor with legacy fighters, so you will either need lots of legacy fighters acting as escorts, or have 5th gens acting as escorts.
But neither method is fool proof, and to be honest, you really want your fighters out winning control of the skies instead of hiding in the backfield on babysitting duty.
Better, but more costly and long term solutions would be things like using UAVs to take over part of the mission of manned AWACs, so you can have large but ultimately expendable UAVs mounting powerful radars operating on the front lines, and datalinking their radar data back to manned AWACS further back, who can process it and directing fighters.
In effect, you are breaking your AWACS into two components, with the sensors deployed on unmanned, expendable assets close enough to the action to not compromise on radar coverage, while your manned analytical and command functions are moved even further back from the front lines, preferably outside of the reach of enemy stealths.
You will probably also see the development and deployment of cheap, disposable "tripwire" and/or sentinel UAVs.
The tripwire UAVs will use swarm logic to form an effective sensor net dense enough to detect stealths.
Sentinel UAVs will fly (or be docked) with high value assets and active as an ablative shield against enemy missile attacks by flying out and putting themselves between their asset and incoming enemy missiles. You can equip them with all sorts of tools to help them attract enemy missiles, such as radar reflectors, heat emitters to explosive chargers that they could set off in front of incoming missiles if all else fails.
Further down the line, when portable lasers become fieldable, I would expect AWACS and tankers to be amongst the first planes to be equipped with them.
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