kwaigonegin
Colonel
Let me rephrase then. J20's primarily role is not be involved in a knife fight where mirrors may potentially come in handy
J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V
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vesicles
Colonel
I thought "knife-fighting" was one of the primary role of the J-20... Isn't that what defines an "aerial superior fighter"?
So why the large all moving canards. This thing is consistently pulling high alpha maneuvers. That's not a feature you see in a plane meant to stay out of knife fights.
vesicles
Colonel
About mirrors. Is it also possible that the J-20 is still in its test phase. So having a mirror is not critical at the moment. After all, you can glue a mirror on it any time you want. It takes literally a few seconds...
Those front line fighters, on the other hand, actually go onto missions. So they need mirrors.
Those front line fighters, on the other hand, actually go onto missions. So they need mirrors.
J-20 is every bit about air superiority as F-22 is. If J-20 failed to be an air superiority fighter aircraft, it would fail its primary design goal. It's hard to imagine that China's primary future fighter aircraft was not designed to be involved in knife fight. In fact, It is specifically designed to be "competitive" against F-22. (Let's leave out how competitive it is or will be against F-22; that's different matter).
Now, due to its size, J-20 has longer range and large payload. This is a must for China's fifth-generation fighter aircraft operating in the vast Asia and West Pacific region. The recently disclosed high-level study document for China's fourth-generation (5th in today's terminology) dated back to 2003 stated that the new aircraft's combat range must be able to reach the capitals of most neighboring countries (~1,500 km). See the map below from the document. F-22, OTOH, was conceived during the Cold War, primarily for the European theater where NATO countries control a lot of airports and range was not hugely important.
So J-20 is also a multi-role fighter aircraft. It can fulfill both air superiority and strike missions.
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Nobody wants to get in a knife fight, I mean no normal human being or fighter pilot! The main reason the Chinese have NO interest in OVT, and the main reason the F-35 will NOT ever have OVT.
If you want to knife fight??? (stupid, and barbaric), you are going to get cut. They new philosophy of air to air combat is the stand-off, long range missile shot, and avoiding givning the bad guy the opportunity to take a "pot shot" at you!
Maneuverability remains a "desired quality" in an A2A fighter aircraft, but that's just in case things go South!
Nice post, with a nice honest tone, good job weig2000. You are right on many different levels, the J-20 was designed to meet the F-22 on an equal footing. What many don't realize is that as weights and altitudes change, load outs change??? the the "top gun" may pivot back and forth between aircraft, and a very well trained pilot is always going to fight to his aircrafts advantage.
As a friend to the Chinese people, and an American Patriot, it is my hope and prayer that we can be a "blessing to each other", there are enough jerks in the world, and I would like to think I love little Chinese children as much as my own, in fact I'm certain that I could adopt a Chinese child and love him or her as my own. I feel that same kind of kommaraderie with each of you.
So I don't offer this compliment as a "suck up", but as someone who wants to express my appreciation for your very accurate and confident assessment!
Quickie
Colonel
One design feature, among many, that points to the J-20 being maneuverable is its rather radical design of having all its stabilizers movable, and non partly fixed with rudders/elevators. (This may explain why the J-20 needs to have ventral fins to compensate for stability.)
Other canard delta fighters like the Rafale, Typhoon, Grippen have fixed single vertical stabilizers with rudders for yaw control. The F-22 has fixed vertical stabilizers with rudders whereas the PakFa has fixed horizontal stabilizers with elevators.
Other canard delta fighters like the Rafale, Typhoon, Grippen have fixed single vertical stabilizers with rudders for yaw control. The F-22 has fixed vertical stabilizers with rudders whereas the PakFa has fixed horizontal stabilizers with elevators.
Are you suggesting mirrors = air superiority/"knife fight" role, and lack of mirrors = not air superiority/"not knife fight" role?
In which case, how does F-22 fit into your logic?
I wouldn't read to much into this, these birds will each one individually "beat you to death", and make you beg for mercy, those ventral fins are to maintain directional stability post stall, the all flying "ruddervators" do indeed portend a very maneuverable aircraft, but to be honest the PAK-FA may be the "killer" of the bunch?? with is 3D OVT and Vorticons
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