manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Can you kindly provide some evidence to your claim? LOL
J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V
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SinoSoldier
Colonel
In a very compact nutshell:
- F-22 has superior all-aspect RCS reduction
- F-22's engines are IR-shielded
- F-22 has a far higher TWR (leading to higher turning rates, acceleration, climb)
- The US' lead in ECM/EW equipment probably applies in this situation as well
EDIT: I'm not saying that the J-20 cannot be a close competitor to the F-22, but I highly doubt the former can match with the latter on a toe-to-toe basis.
Given the years of experience and upgrades, and training and evolution the F-22 has gone through over the least ten years...and, at least IMHO, the edge/lead the US has in material an actively using these aircraft, you are probably right.
But any way you dice it, what the Chinese have done and are doing with the J-20 represents a HUGE leap forward for them, and another glaring embarrassment for this current administration.
But this admin will be gone soon, and the team being put together at this point seems to have much more respect and understanding for what the PRC has accomplished...and that's good all the way around.
Stop replying to him. Him, janiz, samurai etc are not worth replying to. Whenever I see their comments, I hear a mental "heh" because that's exactly the sort of comment I expect from them. But when I see you and others replying to their comments, that's when I facepalm. You got baited so hard.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Too compact. What are some numbers of RCS? In what band? What external material does each aircraft use for radar absorption? What are their specs? How much heat do F-22 engines emit through the nozzles? J-20's? Any heat map evidence? What about their ability to detect heat? Sensitivity of equipment? F-22 is agile, but it's been out-flown by delta canards before so we're gonna need to see some comparisons between the aircraft in different performance envelopes. What is J-20's TWR? What weight are you using to calculate the TWR? EM/ECM? Kindly elaborate and what equipment both aircraft use and their specs. You will, of course, be providing qualified citations for each in order for them to be considered evidence.
Honestly, at this point I don't even consider my replies to be "replies" because I try to avoid engaging the content of his post and more try to flag the post as flame bait that other people should also notice as well and keep a wide berth away from.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
Frankly, there's no need for RCS values in this case, in the same manner that you don't need such data to conclude that a J-10A won't have the same VLO capabilities as a Rafale. The overall lack of planform alignment relative to the F-22, canards that fails to remain flush with the rest of the wings, and conventional engine nozzles are already significant detriments to the J-20's stealth. Of course, there is the question of the effectiveness of the J-20's RAM; the US has been developing this kid of material far longer than have China.
TWR of the J-20 (current engines): (2*14500)/32000 = 0.91
TWR of the F-22 (current engines): (2*15876)/27900 = 1.14
I can make just as superficial remarks saying J-20 is superior
- J-20 has EOIRST
- J-20 has 360 degree EO PDS whereas F-22 only has MLD
- J-20 can leverage advances in electronics in all domains for avionics superiority
- J-20 has larger nose for more powerful radar
- J-20 has engines shielded by ventral fins to substantially reduce side IR signature
- J-20 is larger with longer endurance and range
.... but I won't, because I know such comments would be a low quality and low yield post that can not be reliably defended but also not reliably disproven, and is just the result of a one line piece of bait thrown by Blackstone.
So maybe we can do the wise thing and have everyone acknowledge the flamebait for what it is, shrug, and not engage it on any terms.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
I could have sworn I asked for evidence supported by citations and quotes of reliable sources but I don't seem to see any. Can you calculate stealth just by looking or does it take some sort of equipment with knowledge of the materials? Do we just assume that the US makes superior "smart skin" because the country at it the longest is best at something? I didn't know that was a fair assumption. I didn't know that China was at the supercomputer game for a longer period of time than the US and that's why it makes the fastest supercomputers... I didn't know that the US has the largest economy in the world because it has the oldest economy in the world... Can I get some references as to how you attained your TWR numbers? I'd particularly like to know how you got the J-20's weight. I asked for evidence, with references, not highly detailed unsupported claims. You seem to have the two mixed up.
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