J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[plawolf]

Come to think of it, I just rechecked and the JASDF will be receiving F-35s by the end of the year. With J-20s IOC-ing next year, and the F-35s entering Japanese service, what are the chances they'll be engaged in paper dogfights by the end of next year?

I think even optimistically, it will be 3-5 years before either fighter achieves true IOC after delivery.

Even after that, I would expect both types to be too busy training with conventional fighters (on both how to maximise the stealth advantage of the 5th gens, as well as for their existing legacy fighters to try and figure out ways to fight 5th gens) to waste their time on routine patrol and intercept missions.

Both sides may well send their new 5th gens on scouting runs, to see how close they can penetrate the other's ADIZ before they are detected. But that will be a high risk game, as neither side would want to risk showing their hand by allowing the other to gather potentially critical RCS data on their new stealth fighters, so expect the stealthy to turn and run at the first sign of detection.

Rather than J20 vs F35, both would much rather try and catch the opponent's stealth with their own legacy fighters - who will be far keener to engage the stealths in a dogfight to gleam potentially useful data on their performance without risk revealing secrets of their own stealths.

 

[zaphd]

F-35s intercepting a J-20 over the Diaoyus would make for a sweet photo-op. But we will have to be patient.

 

[AssassinsMace]

My bet is anyone around China that has F-35s will be told not to expose them flying around anything Chinese. Not only can China gather passive intelligence on the F-35, we know China has new radar systems they say can detect stealth aircraft. Exposing them can only improve those systems.

 

[taxiya]

I'm with you here, but try to see our friends perspective, he's wrong on a lot of his aerodynamic observations and suppositions, but he is a brother in the Lord to me! I do my very best to be an encourager to our friends here who don't have their minds wrapped around what a novel and very fine aircraft the J-20 is?? for what its worth the same gent on the tape also criticized the F-35, (but he did point out our old Hi/Lo structure).

I was in the same boat he is now, until our own "Engineer" very kindly and patiently "schooled me" on the J-20, ( I just love that guy!). I was once young and "knew it all", as I have put a few years behind me, I find I really want to understand??? on the other hand, I don't have a lot of patience for those whom I have tried to "bring up to speed".

One thing that continues to help me here on SDF are my many fine friends and brothers, and the two tapes are indeed better than many, giving the J-20 a little slack for being in early LRIP, and looking to the future when the WS-15 shall debut.

Appreciate your attitude very much.
To be honest, I am much less patient than you probably. Repeating three times will begin to get my nerve. I am still practicing my ignoring ability.

 

[Inst]

The Chinese already have a treasure trove of data on the F-35; it's a compromised system. There's little loss by deploying F-35s, while the J-20s remain classified. Remember, South Korea is close enough to China that long-range long-wavelength radars have been picking up B-2s and F-22s. What's more likely to happen is that both aircraft will be flying in carrying Luneberg lenses; for patrol and border defense stealth aircraft have the unfortunate trait of being invisible. Meanwhile, the exposed J-20s and F-35s will be backed by their stealthy brethren flying behind.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Flying closer to China means more intelligence can be gathered. The US doesn't fly F-22s around China to send a message like they do for North Korea for a reason.

 

[zaphd]

Inst covered the luneberg lenses, which mask the true radar signatures of the airplanes. In addition, there is no need to expose the electronics capabilities in an intercept. The aircraft could be vectored in by ground or ship based radars, and they could keep communications to analog voice comms.

The fact that F-22s have been intercepting russian maritime patrol aircraft off the US west coast goes to show that simply flying next to potential adversaries' planes doesn't necessarily compromise sensitive features.

 

[AssassinsMace]

The Russians are part of the ISS while China is not because they're afraid of what China could learn. Some congressmen think Chinese just have to look at something and they can copy it. It's irrelevant what they think China can or can't do especially in context with what the Russians can or can't do. They're afraid either way hence why they don't fly F-22s around China. They don't know if China's new radars can detect the F-22 as they claim. They're going to be cautious anyway hence why the US hasn't flown stealth aircraft anywhere near China. It's better not to try then you know nothing is at risk. Like I said before... previous to the emergence of the J-20, they made stealth out to be invincible. After the J-20 emerged all of the sudden stealth can be defeated. That's because they know the vulnerabilities on their own aircraft. And if they don't want China to learn those vulnerabilities, don't fly them around China.

 

[Inst]

Actually, they've already flown F-22s and B-2s around China; iirc, there was basing, as well as a report that Chinese long-range radar picked up F-22s in transit.

 

[Blitzo]

The Chinese already have a treasure trove of data on the F-35; it's a compromised system. There's little loss by deploying F-35s, while the J-20s remain classified. Remember, South Korea is close enough to China that long-range long-wavelength radars have been picking up B-2s and F-22s. What's more likely to happen is that both aircraft will be flying in carrying Luneberg lenses; for patrol and border defense stealth aircraft have the unfortunate trait of being invisible. Meanwhile, the exposed J-20s and F-35s will be backed by their stealthy brethren flying behind.

I don't think anyone is saying that J-20s and F-35s won't eventually start conducting patrols beyond their national airspace.

But it's almost definitely not going to happen next year, more likely in a few more years once both air forces have better absorbed both types of aircraft into their fleets and once both have a few more of them in service.