J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[Air Force Brat]

The procedure is called 'gun harmonization'.

On modern day fighters with an offset mounted gun like the F-16, the avionics should take into consideration everything and project the gun solution into the HUD.

The term for fine English doubles is "regulated", so I'll continue to use that, there is no need to "regulate" or "harmonize" a close in single shoulder mounted weapon, why I used the term centerline as there is only one muzzle to "sight in".

Thank you for the charts, they are quite helpful, note the P-40 is "regulated" at 1000', and that there is much less dispersion with the P-38 due to the muzzles close proximity to one another.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Found an article ripping off Bill Sweetman and David Axe.

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Bill Sweetman:

The J20 is underpowered considering its size and the fact that it wields twin AL-31F engines. Those engines are Russian and just a bit too weak for an aircraft that must balance speed and agility, which the J-20 appears to strive to do. Then there's the electronics and fire-control systems, both areas where Chinese innovations are lacking.

The J-20 could acting as a long-range sniper, speeding directly toward U.S. reconnaissance planes and tankers … and shooting them out of the sky. Without those support assets in the air, America's ability to wage war in the western Pacific drops dramatically.

David Axe

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 a major warplane manufacturer responsible for quickly churning out Beijing's top warplanes. He developed the J-20, China's first stealth fighter (along with copied technology and information from Chinese hacking).

The J20 is not a game-changing warplane. But in a little more than a decade, China went from having no stealth warplanes to entering the select club of countries in the fifth-generation fighter business.

 

[tidalwave]

Found an article ripping off Bill Sweetman and David Axe.

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Bill Sweetman:

David Axe

How does he knows J20 using AL31F? No one is sure at this point here. J20 could use some WS10 variants.

Just like they are sure China has only 250 nuke warheads and 095G noise level greater than Victor class.

 

[JayBird]

How does he knows J20 using AL31F? No one is sure at this point here. J20 could use some WS10 variants.

Just like they are sure China has only 250 nuke warheads and 095G noise level greater than Victor class.

Maybe we will see domestic engines in the near future with the J-20 or even on the next prototype, but everyone know the current J-20 prototypes are all using some variants of AL31F right now with all the high quality pictures out there, no point denying it.

I agree with you on the Chinese nuke warheads total and 095G noise level part, that's just guesstimate from them that's meaningless.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Maybe we will see domestic engines in the near future with the J-20 or even on the next prototype, but everyone know the current J-20 prototypes are all using some variants of AL31F right now with all the high quality pictures out there, no point denying it.

I agree with you on the Chinese nuke warheads total and 095G noise level part, that's just guesstimate from them that's meaningless.

No doubt you are right on the AL31Fs on the J-20, the nuke numbers are an educated estimate, but the 095 decibel noise level has likely been measured against a particular boat, at a particular time and place. I'd imagine it has been measured by a USN boat trailing and checking out the "other team", just the way they do that??

 

[JayBird]

No doubt you are right on the AL31Fs on the J-20, the nuke numbers are an educated estimate, but the 095 decibel noise level has likely been measured against a particular boat, at a particular time and place. I'd imagine it has been measured by a USN boat trailing and checking out the "other team", just the way they do that??

That's the problem brat..... there is no sign of 095 SSN in service or in trial at this time. Other than the submarine-shaped simulator with the number 095 on it. There is no indication 095 is active till today.

We have to at least see some kind of evidence that 095 is out in the sea or port before other countries boat can measure it's noise level. Right now it's all guesstimate with not much facts to back it up.

 

[Jeff Head]

Well...I for one am still sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for 2016 to appear...and I am not talking about they year!

 

[plawolf]

How does he knows J20 using AL31F? No one is sure at this point here. J20 could use some WS10 variants.

We have had good, high resolution pictures up the J20's tailpipe, and the internal structure is identical to AL31 and distinctly different from WS10A.

 

[janjak desalin]

If one seeks to critique Sweetman's assessment of the J-20's engines, instead of questioning his observation of which engines it uses, we might more profitably question his assertion that the AL-31F is "just a bit too weak for an aircraft that must balance speed and agility". Excuse us, but doesn't the AL-31F power the Su-27, an aircraft that is superior to the F-22 in top speed, and at rough parity with the F-15 in top speed and superior to it, considerably, in agility? Can we say Pugachev's Cobra? Therefore, Sweetman's assertion regarding the AL-31F is simply technically incorrect.

Additionally, but without belaboring the point, Blitzo's recently published observations regarding the size of the J-20, in comparison to the Su-27 airframe, and the expectation of a greater use of composites in its construction, suggest that it's empty weight may also be less than initial estimates. Consequently, if it were only "speed and agility" that the J-20 strove for, Sweetman's assertion would then be doubly incorrect. First, in that, the AL-31F is not "too weak for an aircraft that must balance speed and agility". And, second, in that, were the J-20s operational objectives simply to achieve "speed and agility", the AL-31F might, indeed, be sufficient to accomplish this.

What we might surmise is that, in his haste to devalue, Sweetman neglected to exploit his own knowledge and vocabulary in failing to correctly assert that the AL-31F is insufficient to power the J-20 to supercruise, which, according to most sources, is an essential element of "5th generation" capabilities. So, see, all we need to do is step back, a bit, from our own attachments in order to observe the errors resultant of those of others.

 

[plawolf]

If one seeks to critique Sweetman's assessment of the J-20's engines, instead of questioning his observation of which engines it uses, we might much more profitably question his assertion that the AL-31F is "just a bit too weak for an aircraft that must balance speed and agility". Excuse us, but doesn't the AL-31F power the Su-27, an aircraft that is superior to the F-22 in top speed, and at rough parity with the F-15 in top speed and outclasses it, considerably, in agility? Can we say Pugachev's Cobra? So, his assertion is simply technically incorrect.

Additionally, but without belaboring the point, Blitzo's recently published observations regarding the size of the J-20, in comparison to the Su-27 airframe, and the expectation of a greater use of composites in its construction, suggest that it's empty weight may also be less than initial estimates. Consequently, if it were only "speed and agility" that the J-20 strove for, Sweetman's assertion would then be doubly incorrect. First, in that, the AL-31F is not " too weak for an aircraft that must balance speed and agility". And, second, in that, were the J-20s operational objectives simply to achieve "speed and agility", the AL-31F might, indeed, be sufficient to accomplish this.

What we might surmise is that, in his haste to devalue, he neglected to exploit his own knowledge and vocabulary in failing to correctly assert that the AL-31F is insufficient to power the J-20 to supercruise, which, according to most sources, is an essential element of "5th generation" capabilities. So, see, all we need to do is step back, a bit, from our own attachments in order to observe the errors resultant of those of others.

The J20 might be shorter than the Su27, and will use more composites, but the internal weapons storage, S ducts etc comes at a cost in weight, just look at the F22's empty weight compared to that of the F15s (31,000lb vs 26,000lb).

The F22 has significantly more powerful engines to compensate.

If we assume a similar weight gain ratio between the J20 and similar sized Su27, one could see why using the same engines as the Su27 would prove suboptimal.

I do not think anyone has ever suggested that AL31/WS10A would be suitable for the J20 as its final engine solution. For that, the Chinese are developing the WS15.

The AL31 has enough thrust to be an adequate stop-gap solution until such time as the WS15 is ready and available, it can be nothing more.