J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

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Iron Man

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In what role?

As an interceptor targeting AWACS/Tanker/ISR aircraft, it shouldn't make too much of a difference and the cost/benefit ratio works out very well.

But it wouldn't fare well in a dogfight, but what stealth fighter ever wants to get into that sort of position?
Maximum speed, maximum altitude, climb rate, and acceleration would all be affected, and these factors would negatively impact the effectiveness of the J-20 in its role as HVT-killer. It would also negatively impact the kinematic performance of any missile the J-20 launches to attack these HVTs. The WS-15 is key for the J-20. Until it has those engines it will be a pale reflection of its true potential.
 

AndrewS

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True! However, once the US agents realized the data has been stolen, they could mount their own attacks to destroyed the stolen data? Could that happen? Unlike other kinds of intelligence, these detailed tech data need a long time to be properly analyzed and digested. The US could find where the stolen data is stored and destroyed them before the Chinese have a chance to analyze the data? the Chinese would be similarly defenseless against such attacks...

My point is that the US and China should be at least similarly capable in these cyber battles. Who know... there might be some agreement between the two countries. I don't attack you if you don't attack me. I will mess you up as much as you can mess me up. So back off!

I believe it took some months/years for those organisations to realise they had been compromised.

This is just cyber-espionage, which both sides understand is part of the game.

Cyber-warfare on the other hand would be something like when Stuxnet destroyed Iranian nuclear centrifuges or when every computer in Saudi Aramco was destroyed.

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AndrewS

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Maximum speed, maximum altitude, climb rate, and acceleration would all be affected, and these factors would negatively impact the effectiveness of the J-20 in its role as HVT-killer. It would also negatively impact the kinematic performance of any missile the J-20 launches to attack these HVTs. The WS-15 is key for the J-20. Until it has those engines it will be a pale reflection of its true potential.

Yes, "Maximum speed, maximum altitude, climb rate, and acceleration would all be affected".

But they make very little difference when going after tankers/AWACs/ISR
 

Iron Man

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It's not just the "going after tankers" part. It's the rapid ingress and egress since you are trying to avoid escorts who are inevitably going to be guarding these HVTs. It's how far away you can launch the missiles and how effective they will be when they reach the target. You do know that the speed and altitude of the launching fighter as well as the target make a big difference in missile performance, do you not? You want to launch during supercruise at a higher altitude than the target to get the best performance out of the missile. Do you absolutely have to do this? No. Can you fly in at less than supercruise speeds and still accomplish your mission without dying to escorts on the way in or out? Possibly. But each performance metric that you are deficient in makes your chance of success that much lower. And yes, this includes missions against HVTs.
 

AndrewS

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It's not just the "going after tankers" part. It's the rapid ingress and egress since you are trying to avoid escorts who are inevitably going to be guarding these HVTs. It's how far away you can launch the missiles and how effective they will be when they reach the target. You do know that the speed and altitude of the launching fighter as well as the target make a big difference in missile performance, do you not? You want to launch during supercruise at a higher altitude than the target to get the best performance out of the missile. Do you absolutely have to do this? No. Can you fly in at less than supercruise speeds and still accomplish your mission without dying to escorts on the way in or out? Possibly. But each performance metric that you are deficient in makes your chance of success that much lower. And yes, this includes missions against HVTs.

I already considered those points when came to my conclusions.

The additional speed/altitude from WS-15s doesn't make much difference when you have PL-15s against AWACS/Tankers/ISR aircraft, as factors other than the engine become important.

Eg. A pair of J-20s head straight towards a HVT and present a minimal radar/thermal signature. When detected or in range, boost to maximum speed and height to impart as much range to the missiles as possible. They might as well launch most of their missiles as they cost way less than a HVT. It means the J-20 becomes lighter/faster and some of the missiles could be assigned to target non-stealthy escorts as well.

Then head in the opposite direction and/or slowdown so it's easier to disengage. Light up the HVT and provide mid-course guidance to the missiles. Then disengage asap. The J-20 looks like it is being designed with way more fuel/range than the F-22/F-35, so it should be able to sustain a higher disengagement distance on afterburner.

If the HVT is an AWACs or ISR asset, then the Chinese coast should be really close.
If the HVT is a tanker in the Pacific, disengaging should still be possible. I can also see an Infra-red version of the PL-15 being developed, which would discourage F-22s from pursuing a disengaging J-20. Plus potentially 6 F-22s just fell into the ocean from lack of fuel as well.

Plus there simply aren't enough stealth fighters to escort all the AWACS/Tankers/ISR aircraft.
 
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Deino

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Iron Man

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I already considered those points when came to my conclusions.

The additional speed/altitude from WS-15s doesn't make much difference when you have PL-15s against AWACS/Tankers/ISR aircraft, as factors other than the engine become important.

Eg. A pair of J-20s head straight towards a HVT and present a minimal radar/thermal signature. When detected or in range, boost to maximum speed and height to impart as much range to the missiles as possible. They might as well launch most of their missiles as they cost way less than a HVT. It means the J-20 becomes lighter/faster and some of the missiles could be assigned to target non-stealthy escorts as well.

Then head in the opposite direction and/or slowdown so it's easier to disengage. Light up the HVT and provide mid-course guidance to the missiles. Then disengage asap. The J-20 looks like it is being designed with way more fuel/range than the F-22/F-35, so it should be able to sustain a higher disengagement distance on afterburner.

If the HVT is an AWACs or ISR asset, then the Chinese coast should be really close.
If the HVT is a tanker in the Pacific, disengaging should still be possible. Plus potentially 6 F-22s just fell into the ocean from lack of fuel as well.

Plus there simply aren't enough stealth fighters to escort all the AWACS/Tankers/ISR aircraft.
I'm not sure how what you have said here changes anything that I said....
 

vesicles

Colonel
It is astounding to me that given the acknowledgement that we had "hackers" breaching our security protocol, not leaks but folks breaking into our network, and honestly, they've been up front about who the "usual suspects are"?? that people would think that's ridiculous???

I never made any accusations, but those kind of targeted, repeated, persistant breaches honestly come under what could be referred to as "cyber warfare"???

Again I'm not making accusations, but I'm not the one who called the possibility ridiculous either??? HEH! Heh! HeH!

I shouldn't use the word "leak". For that, I apologize.

Given that the US spies its own citizens and hacks into its allies' network to spy on them (Snowden?), it's not a stretch to assume that the US hacks into China's network either. Thus, labeling it a battle is appropriate.

It's hard to believe that the US would sit and do nothing when someone is attacking them and damaging its national interests. No one would do that, let alone someone with the kinds of capabilities of the US.
 
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